AKo unimproved, 19.25 bb pot... [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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o0mr_bill0o

05-19-2005, 08:43 PM

I normally play 2/4, but the games sucked and i was really just concerned with working off a bonus, so I decided to jump down to .50/1 and play the rest of it off. Not really too concerned with advice here, so i'm showing you the results.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. Hero posts a blind of $0.5. CO posts a blind of $0.75.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero (poster) raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (14.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

River: (17.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 19.25 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has 9h 7d (high card, queen).
Hero has As Kc (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins 19.25 BB. 

i think it's a good illustration that when the pot is huge, you should probably call.

shadow29

05-19-2005, 08:44 PM

I'm more concerned with the flop rather than the river.

davelin

05-19-2005, 08:45 PM

I'm folding the flop honestly.

irishpint

05-19-2005, 08:46 PM

should we have folded the flop rather than 3bet? straight draw, flush draw, etc.

PuckNPoker

05-19-2005, 08:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm folding the flop honestly.

[/ QUOTE ]

ClaytonN

05-19-2005, 08:54 PM

River play is good illustration as Ed Miller likes to note that you should call with AK unimproved when the pot is that big, because there's a better than 1 in 20 chance that the villain is bluffing.

But yea, fold the flop. With that bet/raise action I would say your A and K outs are now dirty. Likely relying on your backdoor draws.

Aaron W.

05-19-2005, 09:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I normally play 2/4, but the games sucked and i was really just concerned with working off a bonus, so I decided to jump down to .50/1 and play the rest of it off. Not really too concerned with advice here, so i'm showing you the results.

...

Results in white below: 
BB has 9h 7d (high card, queen).
Hero has As Kc (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins 19.25 BB. 

i think it's a good illustration that when the pot is huge, you should probably call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's a good illustration of results-oriented thinking.

"I'm not concerned with advice, but I want to show you my neat results. See! The river call was right!" -- The flop 3-bet was probably close to a full SB error under generic cicumstances. In this case, you ran into a LAG and got lucky. Probably 25-30% of the time, only one spade comes in, and MP1 makes his flush. Another 25-30% of the time LAG makes his straight or pairs up to beat you (don't double-count the straight on a flush card). And a good portion of the time, BB's flop cap means real trouble. All of these combine to making you lose a good chunk of the first SB from your 3-bet, and then another good chunk when you're compelled to call the cap.

It's probably a very thin flop call at best, and more likely it's a -EV call because of your reverse implied odds. You played horribly and won. Congratulations.

aK13

05-19-2005, 09:14 PM

Did a flop fold ever occur to you? A bet, raise, and 2 cold calls....

Buckmulligan

05-19-2005, 09:23 PM

I think a flop 3 bet is awful, but I don't think it's that bad to call the two with the overs and back door nut flush draw. I don't think peaking at the turn is bad here.

aK13

05-19-2005, 09:27 PM

2 more things:

1. Posting blind in MP2
2. BB is one for the buddy list.

o0mr_bill0o

05-19-2005, 09:34 PM

yes, yes it did occur to me. however, i'm not interested in advice, because at the time i was dropping down and interested in blowing off some steam and lagging it up a bit. it's a fold every day of the week when i'm playing seriously.

@bsolute_luck

05-19-2005, 10:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yes, yes it did occur to me. however, i'm not interested in advice, because at the time i was dropping down and interested in blowing off some steam and lagging it up a bit. it's a fold every day of the week when i'm playing seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

translation: no point in this thread. encourages result-oriented thinking. bumps good posts to 2nd page. don't mean to be rude, but there is no reason to post this thread.

2+2 wannabe

05-20-2005, 01:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
2. BB is one for the buddy list.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like the BB's river bet a lot - he should've won this pot
BB did have the open-ended straight draw

if anything, hero is on the buddy list

scotty34

05-20-2005, 01:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
River play is good illustration as Ed Miller likes to note that you should call with AK unimproved when the pot is that big, because there's a better than 1 in 20 chance that the villain is bluffing.

But yea, fold the flop. With that bet/raise action I would say your A and K outs are now dirty. Likely relying on your backdoor draws.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm... without an incredible read (and even with one), calling the river with Ace High vs a flop raiser/capper is -EV.

SCfuji

05-20-2005, 02:01 AM

y o u g o t l u c k y d u d e .

Quercus

05-20-2005, 08:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (11.50 SB) 8, T, 2 (5 players)
SB bets, BB raises, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, BB caps, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Nak

05-20-2005, 09:20 AM

With your two backdoor draws, I think that your implied odds warrant a flop call (not a 3-bet), but I would fold the turn.

The best part about this thread is how upset your post made people. I disagree that this post encourages results oriented thinking. Posting the results shows that, yes, the wrong play will get lucky somtimes, but it's still the wrong play.

Nak

Ivanapolis

05-20-2005, 09:36 AM

Well played! Nice 3-bet on the flop! A bad player would have folded it. Just another example how to play AK in an excellent way. I like it very much. Maybe some of the guys at 2/4 would do anything to get you back to their limit to learn more from your skills. I prefer to see you at 50/1.
Good illustration!

Marquis

05-20-2005, 09:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Well played! Nice 3-bet on the flop! A bad player would have folded it. Just another example how to play AK in an excellent way. I like it very much. Maybe some of the guys at 2/4 would do anything to get you back to their limit to learn more from your skills. I prefer to see you at 50/1.
Good illustration!

[/ QUOTE ]

Can someone please tell me what this guy's deal is?

Ivanapolis

05-20-2005, 09:50 AM

<blockquote>In Antwort auf:<hr />
<blockquote>In Antwort auf:<hr />
2. BB is one for the buddy list.

[/ QUOTE ]

i like the BB's river bet a lot - he should've won this pot
BB did have the open-ended straight draw

if anything, hero is on the buddy list

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Although there are 2 /images/graemlins/spade.gifs on the flop and the J doesn't make nuts (only 3 clean outs and a lot of redraws), I probably would have played it in the same way on the flop. After this I think it's better to semibluff on the turn and bluff on the river than to give it up in this huge pot.