Mid PP vs Laggy LP - call all-in or fold?

[DonT77]

$120+10 B&M MTT, 33 players, 1st place gets a $3000 WSOP Main Event Satellite Seat and 2nd place gets $960 cash. Starting stack = 3000 in chips, the blind structure was not all that fast so there was some room for play the first hour or two.

With the payout being really top-heavy I expected that this tourney would play very aggressively especially as we got to the middle rounds.

We start 11-handed on 3 tables. I hadn’t played a hand in like the first 15 hands when I got 55 in MP. UTG+1 raised the 25/50 blind to 150 and UTG+2 called. Figuring that I had implied odds to draw for my set I also called. One LP player (villain) called and 4 players saw the flop of 992r with the Pot at 675.

UTG+1 checked, UTG+2 checked, (both seemed like straightforward players) so I thought I might fire out and take down the pot since my PP might be good, there was only one player left to act, and with as many as 6 overcards to my 55 it was now or never for this hand – so I bet out 450. LP (villain) raised all-in. Both EP players folded and it was ~2400 for me to call to win ~3575. Since LP could have been slow playing a big PP or called a raise with a hand like A9s or T9s – I decided not to risk my tournament life here and I folded. After less than 2 orbits I didn’t have much of a read on Villian, but after that hand and subsequent other hands it became apparent that he was very Loose PF & Aggressive ATF.

We played on and players gradually dropped out until we merged to two tables. With the blinds at 50/100 and a having a stack of about 3000 I got 88 in the BB. One MP player (~3500 in chips) who just came to my table (no read) raised to 300 and Villian – Mr. Laggy from the above hand (~6000 in chips) called from LP. I thought about pushing but decided that my stack was still a little too deep for that, so I just called and the flop came 995r. With the pot at 950 I decided that my 88 might be good, so I had to decide whether to bet out or check-raise. I figured that if I checked and MP or LP bet say 600 I would have to raise like 1800 to get the kind of FE and info I was looking for, but that would leave me with only 900 in chips – so I ruled out the check raise and bet out 600.

MP folded and once again Villian pushed all-in over me. It was 2100 to call to win 4250 – what would you do here? Also, any comments on the other plays / thought processes are also appreciated. I’ll post results tomorrow.

[DonT77]

Bump.
Nobody has any comments / advice?

How about the irony that I thought my stack was too deep to push PF but then felt it was too short to check-raise ATF - or was this a miscalculation on my part?

[schwza]

55 hand - fine.

88 hand - if he's as laggy as you describe, call. but i'd prefer to c/r him instead, unless you think it's pretty likely he'll push with overs.

[Che]

Don-

[ QUOTE ]
I had to decide whether to bet out or check-raise. I figured that if I checked and MP or LP bet say 600 I would have to raise like 1800 to get the kind of FE and info I was looking for, but that would leave me with only 900 in chips – so I ruled out the check raise and bet out 600.

MP folded and once again Villian pushed all-in over me. It was 2100 to call to win 4250 – what would you do here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would call. If he has a 9, bummer, but the top heavy payout makes calling better than folding IMHO.

But, I would have checked and then pushed over a bet from the villain unless the preflop raiser showed interest in playing, in which case I would check-fold. The check-raise all-in for your stack would be almost exactly a pot-sized raise if someone bet 600 at the 950 pot (and villain would likely bet more, it seems), so I think your stack is just about right for a c-r push.

Medium pocket pairs are tough, but they have to be played against bullies or you'll bleed to death.

Later,
Che

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[Lloyd]

I think you played both hands well. The 55 hand seems pretty straightforward although I wouldn't put the LP on a BIG pocket pair since he didn't raise pre-flop and with that many players in the hand I think a decent player would have done that to narrow the field. Easy fold.

Based on the info provided, I think I'd call with 88. I think if he had a 9 he'd play it differently (like calling the flop and raising the turn). Yes, he could have an overpair but because you've described him as a LAG, and the nature of the tourney itself, he could be making this play with a wide range of hands including a complete bluff.

[DonT77]

I called and he flipped up 77 and caught a 7 on the river to knock me out! /images/graemlins/mad.gif

I just had to throw that in, the bad beat was just a joke. What actually happened was that I folded. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif
But seriously - thanks for the feedback guys; after the fact I agree that I probably should have called (or check-pushed as suggested earlier) given the structure of the tourney, the pot odds, and the fairly wide range of hands that LP had been playing (QT, Kxs, etc.) athough that should have been somewhat narrower since he called a raise (KJ, Axs, ?)

From there I stayed on a stack that was 8-10BBs for the next several levels where I managed to double up about as often as the blinds went up - keeping me at 8-10xBB.

When it got to 6 handed at one table and 5 handed at my table I turned up my LAGgyness and doubled my stack in an orbit or two.

When it got down to 6 players at the final table it was one guy with half the chips (he got AA, KK, KK, and AA within about 25 minutes!) and the rest of us with small stacks (all &lt; 10BBs) fighting for 2nd. Two short stacks busted out and then it was down to four. In the BB with AK I called a UTG push (he had AJ) and I doubled up into second in chips.

Then the big stack tangled twice with the shortest stack. The big stack had the short stack all-in (with the big stack having the best of it) but the big stack lost both times. The big stack went cold it eventually got to where we had 3 even stacks. After a while I got the chip lead and then knocked out the former chip leader. When it became heads-up I had a ~90000 to ~10000 chip advantange, and with the blinds at 3000/6000 my opponent asked me if I wanted to chop. With 1st place of $3000 and 2nd place of $960 - would you give him anything to chop?

I declined his offer and we played heads-up for about 30-40 minutes. He was all-in 2 or 3 times and managed to win each time, but everytime he got up to 24/25k then I would win. He was pushing about 2/3 the time and usually I would fold because I didn't want to double him up to almost even with me. The few times I did call were when his stack was small, but he would always seem to win those. Finally, when the blinds were 4000/8000 - he raised all-in to 12000 and I called 4000 with Q5o (I couldn't refuse the 5:1 odds). He showed K8 or something, but I paired my 5 and took down first place.

Later I found out that the casino is not allowed to hold my money (seat equity) so they paid me $3000 cash and invited me back to their $3000 WSOP ME qualifier finals. I've decided to take $1500 of my $3000 and play in the WSOP $1500 NL Event instead of risking $3K to play in the ME. Will I get a chance to meet any of you on June 3rd?

[Lloyd]

There's a separate thread of people going to the June 3 event. It's in the MTT forum and should be on the first couple of pages. You might want to consider using Pokerstars W$ to register for the event. 1) It's really easy to do it. 2) You can buy 1500W$ for less than $1500.