WHOA! Game Structure gives me a huge edge. How to adjust. Hand Example

[sMethod]

Iv been hearing about this No Limit game in hayward about an hour away from my every day 10-20 limit game. The Structure of this No Limit game is crazy. Both BB and Sb are 2$ with 1$ on the button for a jack pot, but inorder to limp in it costs 5$. So if you are in the BB you still must post 3$ to see the flop. They also play 11 handed because its such a popular game in the casino. There are atleast 5 player limping in before the flop and any where form 15,000-30,000$ on the table. with tons of action. They take 6$ every 30 mins (time) instead of rake (for all you online only player this is cheaper than your average time usually 7$ instead of raked every hand) This should dictate playing tighter than normal preflop, I would think. I can wait for a long time for a hand and it wont cost alot, but there are sooo many player on average 6-8 never less than 5 seeing the flop, that im getting great odds on my money because there alot in the pot already and the stacks run so deep and the players are so bad. Im trying to come up with some more profitable styles for the uniquie game.

I also have a great example of a hand from this game one of the wierdest hands Iv ever played!


UTG 1500$
MP1 300$
Hero has 1000$
CO-1 4000$
CO 6000$

Utg limps MP1 raises to 20$
HERO with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifA /images/graemlins/spade.gif reraises to 50$
CO-1,CO, UTG, MP1 all call 50$
POT 250$
FLOP J /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
CHECKs to me (2 player infront 2 behind)
HERO bet 100$ all four players call
POT 750$
Turn 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Every body checks
River 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif
UTG bets 200$, MP1 folds to me
As im am studying UTG I notice the 2 player behind me show each other there hands! they start laughing and saying "damn I had nothing" "yeah I missed".
UTG has tried this 200$ dollar bet on the river after a checked turn 3 times now 2 times he was called and lost both times. 1 time showed a complete bluff 2nd time mucked his hand after being called and 3rd time he got away with it. So I with all these factors knowing I only had to call his bet without confrontation from the players behind I decieded to call, players behind me muck, UTG.... What you guys think of my play? results soon. /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[flawless_victory]

if i understand correctly, you folded the the river getting almost 5:1... that is truly a horrible play. i dont care that your going to tell me had 8888. play every hand in this game if you know how to play and have a bankroll....

[flawless_victory]

BTW, your reraise PF is WAAAAAYYY too small.

[sMethod]

I also have to factor in gas and 2 extra wasted hours of driving when I decide if I want to make this my my new every day game. I think it could be worth the extra time aand money Ill do an EV evaluation caluating gas prices :0

[sMethod]

I called the river bet!

[sMethod]

What do you suggest I raise he made it 20$ I should have made it 60$ ok ok but I wanted some action if I made it 70-80 thats 50-60 more whos gonna call that? O wait your right im playing with idiots.

[psuasskicker]

This should dictate playing tighter than normal preflop, I would think. I can wait for a long time for a hand and it wont cost alot, but there are sooo many player on average 6-8 never less than 5 seeing the flop, that im getting great odds on my money because there alot in the pot already and the stacks run so deep and the players are so bad.

You're the guy I like to smoke with a hand like 86s on a 457 flop that couldn't POSSIBLY have helped anyone after you raised it PF. Seriously, this to me allows me to play in a bunch of hands and build a nice image as a LAG to come along and crush someone that likes to play tight and only with "premium" PF hands.

This style will play well in limit games. But in NL, you're gonna find this style of play is likely going to win you small pots and lose you big ones.

FWIW, you have an easy call on that river, but your PF reraise was too small (should have made it at least $60, and I'd probably have made it $70 or $75), and your flop bet was a girly one on a somewhat coordinated board that you don't want to give people odds with.

- C -

[creedofhubris]

If there's not much raising preflop, you should be playing every pocket pair, every suited connector, and every suited ace, then folding unless you get open-end, 4 to a flush, two pair or better.

If there's a lot of raising, throw away the suited aces and the suited connectors unless you're in position, but keep playing every pair.

Oh, and raise QQ-AA and AK HARD preflop.

[ckff93]

I agree with creed, but I would emphasize that position is the most important thing in a game like this. I mean look at your example. You had 2 people left to act after you and they made it obvious what they were going to do. What if you had a read like that everytime? A game like this and you should have that read in just a few weeks and that will more than make up for gas money.

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you suggest I raise he made it 20$ I should have made it 60$ ok ok but I wanted some action if I made it 70-80 thats 50-60 more whos gonna call that? O wait your right im playing with idiots.

[/ QUOTE ]100 to go. good call on river, BTW (sry). if you cant get these suckers to call overbets yet, work on your image.

[sMethod]

"You're the guy I like to smoke with a hand like 86s on a 457 flop that couldn't POSSIBLY have helped anyone after you raised it PF. Seriously, this to me allows me to play in a bunch of hands and build a nice image as a LAG to come along and crush someone that likes to play tight and only with "premium" PF hands."

This is not true Im playing those 68 79 810 suited hand but im only playing when I can limp in late posisition I dont see any reason to commit a 20-40$ pre flop with a hand like that even the suited connectors, these hands should e folded because I can afford to wait. What is the magic number that you would cut off calling a preflop raise with a suited connector, Example: 2-2-1 blinds 5$ to see a flop im in mp3 I limp with 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif CO raises to 25$ 2 preflop callers infront call the raise 85$ in the pot 20$ for me to call Roughly 4 to 1 on my money. Is it going to be more profitable in situations like this to just fold and wait till I can see the flop for cheap. Or should I should I call for pot odds.

You can adjust to 3 player so its 5 to 1 and I still question whether i need to be rishing this much pre flop?

[zeero3]

PLEASE tell me where this game is....

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
PLEASE tell me where this game is....

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like the Palace game that Gab and I have posted about a number of times in the past.

[creedofhubris]

It's totally up to you S. If I were you I would be calling a lot of suited connectors into raised multiway pots, getting it in the middle when you hit, and rebuying to max if you miss.

[sMethod]

Yeah its at the palace in hayward u could get there from SF not too bad of a drive.

[sMethod]

I think people are missing my point of adjustment due to structure. Its 2-2-1 and 5 dollars to play I should be waiting for good cards in good posisition with no need to risk alot in margional situations the blinds are TINY! compared to the size of the game, it seems like no one has come up with any changes in there approach to a loose nl limit game. Every thing that has been said is just basic deep stack poker play nothing new. People are telling me to play 68s, ha when I play my 3-3-1 game with no max but in and theres 1000$ infront of every body at least IM RAISING 68s from mp just to thrown off my opponent on later betting rounds or later hands. if I hit vs some one else no one can put that kid on a hand like that raising preflop then if I get to show it OOHH talk about great for my image, especially if I i bluff my opponents post flop. This brings up another intresting question should I show a hand like this if I raised it pre flop and bluffed it on the flop turn or river.

Man I have A.D.D. how did i end up with that question..

Any way no one has come up with any variance on normal deep stack poker strats so ill continue trying to solve this problem.

[Ulysses]

You keep mentioning 1-2-2, 5-to-go. I used to play this game a fair amount and when the game got deep, it was always killed or double-killed making it 10 or 20 to go. Is that no longer the case? As for strategy, no, I don't think there's anything significantly different about the optimal strategy for this game vs. any other loose deep stack NL game.