Opponent all in - Why is this the rule?

[anatta]

Why is it that if a player calls a bet and then goes all in by just one chip, you cannot check raise?

I checked my set to the aggressive player to my left, he bet, everyone calls to the all in player who puts in one SB plus a chip. Now I cannot raise. I know its my fault for not being aware, but...Why is this the rule?

[bernie]

because he didnt put in at least 1/2 a bet. so you would be raising youre own check w/o there being an actual bet out there.

there was a case brought up awhile back, where 2 guys checked, a 3rd guy bet, the original checker calls allin, and the 2nd guy couldnt raise....THAT one i didnt get, and still dont agree with. since there was a full bet behind you. i acnt remember the explanation on that one though...i think it was a jim brier post in mid stakes...

b

[FatLoser]

I may be wrong here, but shouldn't anatta be able to checkraise? The original bettor shouldn't be allowed to reraise had everyone just called and then someone goes allin for one chip more than the call since that isn't a full raise, but anatta should have right to raise if he wants to?

FatLoser

[Ulysses]

Bernie - this poster is in the same situation that you describe which you didn't understand.

He checks and the player to his left bets a full bet. Then, before action gets to him, someone else calls all-in and he is not allowed to check-raise. I remember there was a rationale for why this rule exists in the post you mention, but I think it is a terrible rule.

Where I play (NorCal), as long as there is a bet after you check, you can check-raise. All-ins are treated as Bernie describes - they have to be 1/2 bet or greater to count as a bet.

[pudley4]

In my cardroom, you'd be allowed to "complete" his bet of one chip - meaning, you'd be able to put in enough chips to turn his bet into a full bet.

If a small bet = 2 chips (so his raise was 1/2 a small bet), then you'd be able to raise him a full bet.

Rules will vary according to the cardroom you're in. In any case, I can't understand why you wouldn't be allowed to either raise or at least complete the bet.

The only time you shouldn't be able to put in more money is if his "bet" caps the betting.

[FishyWhale]

Let´s say limit is $10/20. On the flop a player to your right goes all-in with $6. You can call 6, 10, and raise to 16, yes?

But can you also raise to $20?

And what could you do if he goes all-in with less than $5?

[Homer]

You should at least be allowed to complete the all-in player's half raise, if reraise the full amount...

-- Homer

[Ulysses]

I've only seen one rule in NorCal (which appears to be the same rule all the other posters play with). An all-in bet of 1/2 bet or more counts as a bet. Less than that doesn't. I'll answer based on these rules.

Let´s say limit is $10/20. On the flop a player to your right goes all-in with $6. You can call 6, 10, and raise to 16, yes?

That's >= 1/2 bet, so it acts like a full bet, except that it happense to be $6, not $10. So you can call ($6) or raise ($16).

And what could you do if he goes all-in with less than $5?

All-in bets $4, which is < 1/2 bet. So, a "bet" hasn't happened yet. You can call his $4 or you can bet by completing to $10. If you call $4 and someone else completes, you can raise to $20.

If he were to your left and you had checked, then he went all-in for $4 and everyone called $4 to you, you could only call $4 because you already checked and there has been no "bet."

So, the poster's scenario is very simple in our cardrooms.

If 1 chip = 1/2 bet (SB = 2 chips), the 1 chip is a raise and he can re-raise to 5 chips.

If 1 chip = 1/3 bet (SB = 3 chips), the 1 chip is not a raise and he can raise the original bet by completing the bet for a total of 6 chips.

[anatta]

Yes, that's right. It was 8-16. I checked, the player to my left bet $8, 4 players called $8, the all in player to my right put in $9.00 all-in. I tried to check-raise to $16, but couldn't do it. All I could do was put in $9.00 or fold.

[Ed Miller]

The ruling was wrong. You should be able to raise the bet to $16.

[FishyWhale]

[anatta]

I spoke with the floor man recently regarding this, he said of course I can raise here. I relied on the dealer, and another player, not in the hand, who is also a dealer. My bad.

[Rick Nebiolo]

In Los Angeles this is a raise, but once in a while I hear "you can't raise an all in player" from the peanut gallery.. Unfortunately, you sometimes get floormen who don't understand how the betting action works.

Example: (from a 20/40 game in a very large Los Angeles club)

Player A bets $40 (forty dollar betting round)
Player B calls $40
Player C raises to $80
Player D goes "all in" for $105
Player A calls $105 ($65 more)
Player B raises to $145
Player A screams "you can't do that" and calls for a floorman
Floorman spends a minute scratching his head and initially makes the wrong decision.

Scroll down for correct decision
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Player B made a valid raise that caps the betting. Player D's reraise is for more than half a bet and is treated as a full raise. When the action comes back to player B he is essentially facing two full raises after initially calling. Of course he can raise.

Someday I hope to write a quiz on this but don't hold your breath /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

Regards,

Rick