Home rb question 2

[Rduke55]

OK, so this is the only rebuy I play and I think this is indicative of a problem I've been having.

Six handed, Blinds 400/800. I have 15K after rebuying. I'm in the BB with Kd7c. Two limpers, SB complete, I check.
Flop is 4d6d8s. Villian (T20-25K) bets 800. I call, other 2 fold. Turn is 9d. Villian checks, I bet 1200, villian raises to 3000 (?). My thinking here was kind of a blocking bet. I call.
River is 5c. Villian bets 8k. I think about it and fold.

My thoughts were that I consider myself better than the villian and can get in situations down the road where I'm a large favorite. The turn checkraise confused me as well. In retrospect it may have been him afraid I had the flush already but I just couldn't see him essentially putting me all in with a one card str8 out there with less than the flush. I thought at best I was going for a split.

Is this the kind of places I should be calling during the rebuy period? I had just rebought so that may have colored my thinking.

[schwza]

this is obviously very read-dependent, but against i'm not laying this down without a strong read, especially in a home game.

fold the flop.

turn is fine, call the river.

[Rduke55]

My flop call was me thinking I'm getting 5:1 on a gutshot, an over,and a backdoor flush draw.

Afterwards I thought that this was a definite push for another 3K or so since it was during the rebuy period. I showed the str8 I was laying down he looked suprised. Later I did actually bust him /images/graemlins/grin.gif when he tried to move me off a pot so maybe some good came of this. Before he left he told me he had 2 pair on this hand.

I just think that hands like these are hurting my game since rebuys are alien to me.

If this wasn't a rebuy would you have still called?

[schwza]

but with 2 people left to act there's no guarantee that you're going to get to see the turn. also, the 5 will probably kill your action (although it didn't in this case), and the 5d leaves you wondering if your hand is good.

at least in the home game i play in, there's no way i'm folding here.

[locutus2002]

Fold the flop. (In general you don't want to draw to speculative hands like gutshots, when 1/3 or the time a flush will hit and your unlikely made hand might not be good.) Once you call the hand had most of its value for bluffing.
check the turn behind, villain is not leading out on the flop in 1st position with only a 4,6,or 8 in his hand, or a gutshot draw. He either has a hand or a flush draw. After the turn you are way behind and villain may have the nut flush; take a free card. Your turn bet is so small it says I have the nut flush, call and take a cheap card. I think if you want to play this recklessly now is the time to bluff and put a real bet in. Villain correctly finds your mini-bet incredulous, and pops you, but he should put you all in and make a decision to go with his hand, instead he mini-pops you offering you 5:1 to call saying I have the nut flush. I don't think the river card matters at all, once villain checks its unlikely for him to have the flush and hero should push.
I think this is a good beat story played poorly by both players: one player is playing weak tight, and the other weak-loose. First player to push wins.

[Rduke55]

But ignoring all else should I have called/pushed the river since I could still rebuy?

[locutus2002]

You should always push the river because villain will fold most of the time given the way he's played the hand. The fact that you can rebuy makes no difference. If you lose its a separate decision to buy 18XBB when the average stack is probably 30XBB or more.

If villain pushes you should always call the river when you hit your str8, because you do not have a strong read on your opponent, so the best you can do is play the odds which are:
Pot has ~T18,800. so your getting 2.3:1 or you you have to be about ~30% in the hand to win.

Lets eyeball your chances and say villain has a flush draw or two pair or better (at the flop) to lead the flop, and continue betting in the way he has.
You lose:
Roughly 50 flush draws (Ten remaining A,K,Q,J,T,9,8,7,5,3,2 => 10x9/2 = 50)
ignore 5,7
roughly 50 hands.

44 3 ways
6,6 3 ways
8,8 3 ways
4,6 9 ways
4,8 9 ways
6,8 9 ways

roughly 36 hands.

You win 36 hands out of 86: your at least ~45% in the hand so call. Notice that most of villains original holdings are flush draws. I would start here and say: villain doesnt play AKh, AQh, AJh like this before the flop six handed. The odds are only going to get better for calling.

Regarding the rebuy. A rebuy should be viewed as an option to enter the current tournament with a disadvantaged stack (the current tournament has a bigger prize than the original tournament). A player should engage in this only if he believes he is that much better than the other players that he can overcome the stack size disadvantage. If a player has busted out twice, (if you call and lost on the river) then you are either unlucky, worse than the field, or playing badly. It is unlikely that a rebuy will be a money winning endeavor. Because this option has no value it should not enter into your decision making process.

[Rduke55]

I like your position on rebuys. Some of the people I play with will often have the "big stack an any cost" attitude.
I think that rebuys let you play more of a cash game strategy during the rebuy period. That and come back after a heinous beat.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
You should always push the river because villain will fold most of the time given the way he's played the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

i assume you're talking about the case where villain checks to hero. i think a push here is really bad - it gets called by a flush, a straight, and probably nothing else. you might as well do that with hack high. you've got a good hand here so you should put out a moderate value bet and try to get called by a hand like 2 pair, not blow it out of the water.

[locutus2002]

You are right. Hero should value bet the river in this particular case where hero rivered a str8.

I was talking about all the other cases (92%) where hero misses the str8 and villain checks. I can't make villain for a str8 or a flush here, and think he's put his last chip into the pot so I push 100% of the time.

[Rduke55]

On the river he was first to act and bet 8K. I had ~11K. I meant if I was gonna call I might as well push there.

[locutus2002]

You just want to call. He is still favored in the hand, but the pot is laying you pretty good odds. Save the rest of your chips.

Most rebuy tournaments allow you to rebuy when your chips get low (less than or equal to original buyin) , you don't have to lose them all to rebuy.

[Rduke55]

You can only rebuy up to the original 15K and it still costs the same if you have 0 chips or 14K. If I lost I'd have to rebuy anyway so why not put the last 3K in?
I can't believe he did this with 2 pair though. Although his checkraise maybe said something.

[Rduke55]

I couldn't value bet becaus I was 2nd to act.

[locutus2002]

After its checked to you, you should value bet when you make the str8 because villain may not call a push. I would bet T3000, the same amount villain raised to on the turn. Villan is getting almost 5:1 to call.

[Rduke55]

He checkraised on the turn and then bet the river. I did not get the opportunity to check.

[locutus2002]

Lets say you are 45% in the hand. For every dollar that you put in the pot and villain matches you only get $0.90 out. So you are putting up T3000 chips to have an expected return of T2700, a loss of T300 chips.

The reason you can call villain's bet is that 55% of the time you will lose T8,000, but 45% of the time you will win T26,000. This is a great deal for you overall.

[locutus2002]

IF he were to have checked on the river, then you would value bet it when you make the str8, because you want him to call.