Is 600 a large enough bankroll for $20 sng?

[mikeymer]

Thanks. -Mike

[mcpherzen]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks. -Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

No, if you finish OOTM in your first 27.

[UMTerp]

The general consensus around here is that you should have 30-50 buy-ins for a given level. So "technically" you should have $660 minimum. But my advice is that if you feel like you can beat the $20's and that's not the last $600 to your name, sure, go for it. If you drop 10 buy-ins or so, which isn't particularly uncommon, even for good players, then drop down to the $10's and build back up. There's nothing wrong with giving it a shot though - god knows most of us have played more out of our bankroll requirements than that.

[beeyjay]

if you're worried about how much money you need for th 20s, I'm assuming you have another source of income, in which case 600 is plenty for the 20s. drop down if you start getting low.

[raptor517]

ive dropped 50 buyins at the 55s, 109s, and 215s. however i have played enough that i have been able to see a great deal of variance.. good and bad. if you want to not reload, then keep a comfortable 75+ buyin bankroll, assuming you are even a marginal winner. however, if you are a casual player playing only a couple tables at a time, 600 should do just fine. holla

[1C5]

I have $7000 and still play the 22s hahahaha.

[obisponator]

This has nothing to do w/ the post, but love the icon 1C5... Favorite game of ALL TIME

[KJ o]

The others have given correct answers, but I just want to add one thing.

If you are a winning player and intend to keep your winnings, $600 will get you far. If you always extract your winnings so that you never have more than $600 in your account, you *will* go broke if you play long enough.

There is a world of difference between the risk of ruin for your starting BR and your "continous" BR.

[Maulik]

the $22s are soft. if you find yourslef with $300 at some point drop down to the $11s and you'll be fine. Call it a rolling bankroll

[11t]

If you are a proven winner at that level then 30 buy-ins could be acceptable.

If you are not I'd suggest more.

[JJKillian]

I am staying completly disciplined to a system I made for myself. I save up 30 buy ins for each lvl. For example

10's from 0 to 900 (10x30+20x30)
20's from 900 to 1800 (10x30+20x30+30x30)
30's from 1800 to 3300 (10x30+20x30+30x30+50x30)

so on and so forth.

I say completly discipline but as I get close to my bubble for the next lvl I will play 2 of the lvl that I am at and 2 at the upper lvl (I always 4 table). It gives me more of a feel for the next lvl without completly jumping into it.

I have been into sports/games my whole life. And I am sure there is a cap for my skills at poker just like anything else. I have not hit that yet, but when I do I will go back down a lvl and stay there forever. Being honest with yourself is a tough thing to do in life, but the ability to do so is invaluable.

Laterz

JJ

[Moonsugar]

If you beat the game soundly, yes. If you are a loser, no. It also depends on how much risk of "ruin" you want to accept. For psychological reasons I never want to have to deposit money into a poker account ever again, so I probably keep more in my BR and move down in limits more than is theoretically called for. I keep 50+ buyins of the largest tournies I play in my online roll.

After some games this month the AM spreadsheet tells me I need the following br for 1% risk of ruin:

$33 = $7,700
$109 = $2,400

I have been running a lot better in the 109 than in the 33 this month. But this shows you the effect that profitability can have on the calculation.

[KennyBanya]

Hey Moondragon,

The spreadsheet says you need a bigger bankroll for 33s than 109s? I am hoping this is a typo on your part, and not bad info from the spreadsheet. I think I use that same spreadsheet.

Please let us know.

KennyBanya

[Scuba Chuck]

I'm pretty sure all you need is $22.

[stupidsucker]

The question is.... do you plan on withdrawing always leaving $600 in your account, or is this just to get you started?

It is most important to know how you plan to treat your BR before you know what kind of BR you need. If you are just trying to find a good BR to start and build on the 20 buys is probably enough to get started at the 20s, but if you never want to redeposit then get it up to 1k and withdraw 1k every time you hit 2k.

Variance is silly, and that is what BR is for. Its all about comfort and no one here can really asnswet that but you.

all in all $600 is fine for the 20s if you are a winner.

[Bluff Daddy]

what I did when I got my br comfortable enough in the 10's I just mixed in some 20's every now and then while I was still building my br till I had enough to comfortable enough to 4 table only the 20's which was around 900 for me

[Winwood]

Why this isn't a sticky I'll never know (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1918735&page=&view=&s b=5&o=)

[Moonsugar]

Not a typo. For 33 I have 159 tournies this month with ROI of 2.3%. For 109 I have played 37 with a ROI of 24%.

The fact that there is a discrepency in the BR needed number says more about my limited data than the AM spreadsheet.

I just started playing SnG again after a long hiatus. I started on a few 33 to get my confidence and feel back then I moved up to 55 and now 109. I know my winrate on the 33 is not impressive, but my experience there was enoguh to make me think I should move up.

[kodonnell]

Because it makes a difference how many people are in the tournament ($20 in a heads up tourn is much different than $20 in a tournament of 1000's), I base my level of comfort by the prize pool. I need to have 40-50% of the total prize pool of a tournament in my BR in order to enter it. So in your case, if there are more than 60 ($1200 in the pool) in the sng, I would say no...less than 60, yes.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
Why this isn't a sticky I'll never know (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1918735&page=&view=&s b=5&o=)

[/ QUOTE ]

because it's not? i dunno either. but:

did the guy's question say "can anyone find me a link to shadow's post?" i didn't read that there. if you're going to post a link in someone's question post, it's much more useful to quote say, a section, of that post, than to just send people to the whole post over and over again. that's like me answering all questions that i think have been answered before with just a link to the search page, or the forum's index. ok, i hyperbolize a little, but not much.

citanul

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Because it makes a difference how many people are in the tournament ($20 in a heads up tourn is much different than $20 in a tournament of 1000's), I base my level of comfort by the prize pool. I need to have 40-50% of the total prize pool of a tournament in my BR in order to enter it. So in your case, if there are more than 60 ($1200 in the pool) in the sng, I would say no...less than 60, yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this at all.

Lets look at some numbers:

Let say you wanted to play in the Party $20+2 $30K Guarantee. This usually ends up close to 2K people with a $40K prizepool. According to your theory you need a $15-20K BR to play?

ON the other hand lets look at a step 5. Total Prize pool is $10K so You would play this with a $5K BR?

This seems completely backwards and I really hope I'm just misunderstanding you.

[Moonsugar]

Hey, don't get technical.

[mikeymer]

Thanks fellas... I'm just going to try to build it up... I won't withdraw to keep only 600 in at once, after reading some responses, thanks again. -Mike

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
Not a typo. For 33 I have 159 tournies this month with ROI of 2.3%. For 109 I have played 37 with a ROI of 24%.

The fact that there is a discrepency in the BR needed number says more about my limited data than the AM spreadsheet.

I just started playing SnG again after a long hiatus. I started on a few 33 to get my confidence and feel back then I moved up to 55 and now 109. I know my winrate on the 33 is not impressive, but my experience there was enoguh to make me think I should move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

ror calcs are only good if u have 5k sngs or more. anything less can be misconstrued, which it is in this instance. holla

[Freudian]

I have dropped 600 in one day (http://web.telia.com/~u18112987/medontlike.jpg). Of course prior to that I had won more than 600 at the 22s so I would have been ok starting out with that amount.

Just move down if you have a 10-15 drop when you start out. There is a good chance you don't have to if you are a winning player at the 11s.

[Winwood]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why this isn't a sticky I'll never know (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1918735&page=&view=&s b=5&o=)

[/ QUOTE ]

because it's not? i dunno either. but:

did the guy's question say "can anyone find me a link to shadow's post?" i didn't read that there. if you're going to post a link in someone's question post, it's much more useful to quote say, a section, of that post, than to just send people to the whole post over and over again. that's like me answering all questions that i think have been answered before with just a link to the search page, or the forum's index. ok, i hyperbolize a little, but not much.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree entirely, my post wasn't as useful as it might have been. The terseness of my answer was due to the fact that this was yet another "is my bankroll big enough" question. But maybe I could gone a but further.

Although perhaps OP had other questions like this such as "What is a sustainable ROI at 22" and "So just what is a Stop and Go then?" and in fact I've answered many questions with one fell swoop.

I noticed that Shadow's post got bumped not long after, which I guess means someone else followed my link and found it useful enough to want to bump it. So perhaps that makes up for what ever it was you said.

[kodonnell]

You got it right. Thats why I do not play in huge tournaments. My goal is to slowly and methodically build my BR so that I can play these large tournaments without worrying too much about my BR. As my play gets better, I will likely lower my requirements to 25-30% as I will be more confident to make it in the money. In the large tournaments, there are way too many places which do not pay anything. Also, I do not play online for real money. This rule is for the B&M tournaments I play in which typically have much fewer players. I set it up this way so that I do not blow my whole wad too quickly (if I start to run bad).

For example, if you spend all year building your bankroll to 10K playing in small tournaments, would you blow it all on 1 entry to the WSOP for 10K where, even if you are an average player, you are likely to loose it all in 1 day? I think it is just a matter of your comfort level and how much BR variance you are willing to accept.

[valenzuela]

If you are going to be able to eat if u lose ur bankroll yes.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why this isn't a sticky I'll never know (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1918735&page=&view=&s b=5&o=)

[/ QUOTE ]

because it's not? i dunno either. but:

did the guy's question say "can anyone find me a link to shadow's post?" i didn't read that there. if you're going to post a link in someone's question post, it's much more useful to quote say, a section, of that post, than to just send people to the whole post over and over again. that's like me answering all questions that i think have been answered before with just a link to the search page, or the forum's index. ok, i hyperbolize a little, but not much.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never been a fan of links without explanations either. If that's all the effort someone is willing to put into his own post, I'm highly doubtful that the link will point anywhere useful.