Dealing with the motherfrickin minREraise

[billyjex]

Late night Party $33, 630 entrants and we're down to about 150.

I have about 5200, villian in this hand has about 3800. Blinds are 100/200.

I am dealt JJ in MP1. I raise to 600, folded to villian in SB who minraises me to 1000.

A minraise OOP, and I feel SB just flashed me AA or KK. But can I be so sure? Am I just too in love w/ JJ? What would you guys do here? Fold/raise/call?

My thinking was, he did have at least QQ or better (I doubt somebody does this w/ AK,) and I called for pure set value.

The flop was 6, 3, 2 rainbow. Villian pushed the rest of his stack and I folded. ok?

[Seadood228]

I'd play it the same... And feel crappy about it too /images/graemlins/smile.gif Folding preflop is horrible, but then again we all know this.

At least you didn't have AK in that scenario.. Much tougher to play IMO.

[ZBTHorton]

Hmm.. Ya know? I may play 88/99/1010 about the same way he did...

[LethalRose]

if folding preflop is horrible why do you fold a perfect flop...you cant try to hit sets every pp you get lower than AA.

a lot of times min raises mean AK or a small PP trying to build a pot and get paid off if it hits, sure you'll see QQ KK AA but those are the only 3 hands that dominate you. He could easily just have AJ or AQ.


I dont think a hand that dominates you pushes this hand, if so he deserves your stack. More likely he had A6 or some type of draw. at this stage in the tournament i dont even think about folding this. maybe if your very close to the big money and you have a special read. w/t fold imo.

[Seadood228]

Me too... and that's what sucks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[billyjex]

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Hmm.. Ya know? I may play 88/99/1010 about the same way he did...

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you really minraise nearly 1/3rd your stack OOP late in a tourney? How do you feel when I call and an A/K/Q/J flops?

[Seadood228]

You'd have to be certain you are up against a player who is capable of making a big fold. Generally I like to have deeper stacks, but it's not unheard of.

[Seadood228]

Actually you might be right at a party $33. There are some really terrible players there who make that play with junk. Against a good player this is a fold IMO because a good player will often correctly put you on a middle/highish pair, and that's why they bet so much on a baby flop.

[crookedhat99]

Why is folding preflop so horrible if you fold that seemingly delicious flop without a problem?
I think if you really put someone on a hand, calling preflop because you don't want to be W/T doesn't make much sense. I think people lose sight of this...when you have your mind set on the opponents hand being ahead of you, you will still have that mindset on the flop and end up playing W/T. It is good to be W/T preflop in situations where doing so will prevent yourself from being soooper W/T post flop.

If I were in OP's situation, I would push or fold preflop after the miniRE. I think you have to decide right there whether you are ahead of the range YOU put him on, and act accordingly, so you don't bleed chips. Not calling the raise to not be W/T, where in fact if you call you STILL think he has a better hand, and will play W/T postflop. Conclusion: the mindset that one gets while playing a hand is unchangeable, so doing 1 anti-W/T move won't make the W/Tness go away for the rest of the hand. With deeper stacks, though, this whole babble doesn't apply.

[Seadood228]

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I think you have to decide right there whether you are ahead of the range YOU put him on

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Uhhh... that's EXACTLY what hero did. He was being laid over 5/1 and his read was that he was against a monster, IE an opponent whom he can stack if he catches the right board. Why would you fold there getting those implieds?

I still don't see how players can say JJ is a raise or fold hand and never a call, ESPECIALLY after a reraise. Why would someone take away JJ's after-the-flop advantage by moving in? It just doesn't make sense to me. You are ahead of very few hands there, and if you push preflop you lose all the advantage you have over some of the ones you are ahead of.

[mts]

throw your middle fingers up and yell THUG LYFE, then push allin

[crookedhat99]

[ QUOTE ]
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I think you have to decide right there whether you are ahead of the range YOU put him on

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Uhhh... that's EXACTLY what hero did. He was being laid over 5/1 and his read was that he was against a monster, IE an opponent whom he can stack if he catches the right board. Why would you fold there getting those implieds?

I still don't see how players can say JJ is a raise or fold hand and never a call, ESPECIALLY after a reraise. Why would someone take away JJ's after-the-flop advantage by moving in? It just doesn't make sense to me. You are ahead of very few hands there, and if you push preflop you lose all the advantage you have over some of the ones you are ahead of.

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My post was a little off-topic/on a tangent about how you should immedietly listen to your read, as to not bleed chips. That was the point of my post. What I meant with the raise or fold, was not that JJ is a raise or fold hand, I was trying to say that calling when you know you are behind just because folding would be W/T is wrong. This does not apply to Hero's hand as I look back at the implied odds which make looking for a set +EV so that's my fault.

Also, I agree with you about JJ.