5/5 PL homegame - questions about an unusual/FPS AA hand

[fimbulwinter]

Two importants are button who is a predictable, losing lag, meaning he'll make it 20 if he's going to play and he'll play about 60% of the time. The other is UTG who is good in that he's very tight and somewhat agressive.

5/5 PL

UTG (covers table) limps, two other monkeys (both about 1.5K) limp, I (~2.3K) limp on CO with A/images/graemlins/club.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif, button folds, blinds check. damn.

flop(30): T/images/graemlins/club.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif3/images/graemlins/heart.gif

check, check, UTG pots it at 30, one monkey pots it at $120, I fold...

few questions:

1. I don't need to make this play for advertising purposes; Given that and the fact that i can 3pop it the majority of the time given button's laggyness, is this more profitable?

2. even if i can repop it, i still can only get maybe 2-300 or 1/10th of my stack in. given the depth of the stacks and the fact that i might as well tell UTG what i have should i do this, is it even worth considering?

3. does there come a point where stacks are so deep that you should just resolve to not try to get a good amount of your stack in and just make the normal raise and play some poker?

fim

[midget23]

why the preflop limp?

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
why the preflop limp?

[/ QUOTE ]EARTH TO MIDGET.
i think you played this hand fine... in alot of 5/5 homegames ive played the flop fold is probably a bad idea... in, some, instamuck... if you think this raiser doesnt have TJ, im fine with it..

[chuddo]

i raise the flop to 280 or 300 straight. no monkeys are going to know aces are even a possibility, and they will let you know on later streets if you are behind. plus you have the backdoor nut flush draw. but i think if you are going play this hand from here on, it is better to play it for a re-raise.

but like flawless said in some games this is an automuck, so if you felt that was the case it isn't bad.

3. not really. getting to 3-bet into an entire field with aces is always great, but i raise a lot of hands from the cutoff, so i might as well be raising aces.

plus there is the chance that tightie UTG was banking to limp-raise the lag button's autoraises himself, and may have a monster that would have limp-raised you. and that is a dream spot.

2. if you were given the chance to re-pop it, and your hand is telegraphed to the tightie, he will probably simply choose to not gamble it up with a good player that has position on him and clearly a better hand.

3. getting as much money in preflop with aces is always the goal. in this case you thought that would be accomplished with the limp-raise and it didn't work out. when it doesn't you do have to be able to lay them down, which clearly you are able to do, which is good.

i am not sure this is always the right spot however.

as far as are the stacks ever deep enough: yes sometimes the stacks are deep enough for that to not be the case. but in that situation, you should be making a lot more raises based solely on your position as opposed to your mitt.

[fimbulwinter]

the porblem i have with popping the flop is that the utg limper led into the field. i really don't see him limping with anything besides a PP or maybe AQs/AKo. The only hand i can see him leading into the field with here are a set or JJ or maybe QQ.

thoughts?

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
the porblem i have with popping the flop is that the utg limper led into the field. i really don't see him limping with anything besides a PP or maybe AQs/AKo. The only hand i can see him leading into the field with here are a set or JJ or maybe QQ.

thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you just call the 120, will UTG's action define his hand any better? How about if you make it 300? I could maybe see reraising here if UTG won't hang around with less than a set. You're then HU with the flop raiser, and you seem more confident you're ahead there.

I'm not sure if what you'll make HU vs the monkey, plus what you can get from turned sets/runner-runner flushes if UTG stays in makes up for what you'll lose from giving up after the raise though. (That is, if you assume he has AA beat if he calls the raise, which seems like a reasonable thing to do.)

[chuddo]

so you have AK/AQ and every pair other than TT, 77, and 33 crushed here. so he has either a set or an overpair, and there are three of each, and he has no way of knowing that you have the real overpair.

i think if you just call here you are making it tougher to make the correct play on later streets, as he will probably assume you have the nut club draw and may charge you the full pot to draw on the turn (be it with a set or KK/QQ).

what sucks about putting in a re-raise is that you are defining your hand as more powerful than it actually is, but i think it makes it easier to read the entire hand.

i do not like folding a hand that is potentially best without more information.

but like flawless said against some games and players you know the chance of your hand being good on the flop to be slim, and it is an easy fold.

[coltrane]

[ QUOTE ]
does there come a point where stacks are so deep that you should just resolve to not try to get a good amount of your stack in and just make the normal raise and play some poker?


[/ QUOTE ]

yes, I believe a good big bet player makes the most money with this mentality - particularly if also raising with a large range of hands......unless you're getting 15-20% of your stack in preflop with aces, you're better off keeping the pot smaller and having your hand disguised....having said that, in this particular case you're deep enough to make a little raise with those aces (again, so long as you're not giving away the strength of your hand due to tight table image/raising standards or something like that) and still keep the pot small while also gaining some information, possibly buying position, weeding out the blinds, and still leaving the betting open to a reraise.....

[Dr. Strangelove]

With stacks this deep I don't think you should be limp raising aces at all. Raise reraise, or raise call reraise. Your opponents shouldn't be able to narrow your hand range down very much when you open, because you are opening with all sorts of crap. Limp raising gives too much information away while failing to kill your opponent's odds.