those suited one-gappers

[MLG]

Im in MP with 2500, and the blinds at 50-100. My table is chip heavy though so 3 of the 4 guys after me have me covered. I raise to 350 with 86s. Button with 5k cold calls. Flops is 910A, one of my suit. I check he bets 500, I....

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Im in MP with 2500, and the blinds at 50-100. My table is chip heavy though so 3 of the 4 guys after me have me covered. I raise to 350 with 86s. Button with 5k cold calls. Flops is 910A, one of my suit. I check he bets 500, I....

[/ QUOTE ]

The standard move would be to checkraise all in.

[2005]

well, first of all, I don't like the size of your raise preflop. I'd push this flop. It looks like a pretty huge hand when you do this and I think you have some FE still here.

Gavin

[A_PLUS]

Quickly fold and look back at your well worn copy of "Camhpionship No limit Hold Em" by TJ and realize that the only suited 1 gapper you are allowed to play is AQs, and that since he called your raise, he has Aces.

Lets see 1350 in pot, 2150 behind. If you call, you are still going to have FE against somewhat made hands. Jamming the flop can be considered, it isnt too big of an overbet. Either way I think his first thought it AT.

Call, push any turn that is non-broadway (unless it is your suit)

[durron597]

I think you have too little FE to do anything but fold here.

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have too little FE to do anything but fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im in MP with 2500, and the blinds at 50-100. My table is chip heavy though so 3 of the 4 guys after me have me covered. I raise to 350 with 86s. Button with 5k cold calls. Flops is 910A, one of my suit. I check he bets 500, I....

[/ QUOTE ]

The standard move would be to checkraise all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this is a joke? There's nothing standard about c/r all in w/ a gutshot here.

[Blackjack]

bad....advice...seeping..into.... brain
AHHH

Be done with the hand

Blackjack

[woodguy]

[ QUOTE ]
look back at your well worn copy of "Camhpionship No limit Hold Em" by TJ and burn it

[/ QUOTE ]

fixed your post.

Regards,
Woodguy

[KdoubleK]

Maybe my thinking is too "old school" but I don't see how you can straight up push this flop unless you have done this before with monsters and he's seen you. If this is online, I think most aces will call you here as well as pairs down to jacks. Calling the flop then pushing the turn is even harder to pull off since there's less FE and it just looks really suspicious. Every time I've seen this line its been a desperation semi-bluff and I've picked it off. You have more than enough chips to get away from this cheap.

[woodguy]

Why didn't you lead the flop?

Did you plan on check raising?

Regards,
Woodguy

[Prime Time]

I think there are two reasonable lines here.

1)Lead on the flop w/ intentions of shutting down if he continues.

2) Check fold the flop.

I go with 1.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
look back at your well worn copy of "Camhpionship No limit Hold Em" by TJ and burn it

[/ QUOTE ]

fixed your post.

Regards,
Woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]

pwned

[slickpoppa]

I don't like the preflop raise at all. If your opponents don't fold enough and will go to the felt with marginal hands, then what is the point of trying to be tricky with marginal cards out of position? You only have 25BB, so you don't even have great implied odds, but you still have enough to wait for good cards.

But given the flop raise, I don't like the idea of a flop check-raise at all. I would either bet and fold to a raise or check fold. If he smooth calls, then I might push on the turn if I pick up the flush draw.

In general I think that many people in this thread are over estimating people's FE. You don't have to win every frickin hand. Sometimes you miss and should just move on.

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't have to win every frickin hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the best advice in this thread.

Given the way you played it: you fold

I would much rather lead the flop here unless your continuation bets are getting no respect, you're up against a calling station, or a million other reasons that you might have checked and have left out of your original post. Then I just check-fold.

[PuertoKid]

Totally depends. You have serveral choices. They all have their merits and detractions.

1)You obviously can fold. You still have a stack to fight with. After you pay the blinds you're around 20x bb.

2)You can reraise all in. But it is suspicious. I don't think AA, AK, AQ, AJ plays it this way. I don't think a set plays it this way. So if he hit, he is likely to call you.

3)You can reraise big, but not all in. AA, AK or a set may very well play it this way. If you are against a thinking opponent, you may be able to get him to lay down a lot of hands with this move.

4)You can call, check the turn. If he checks the turn go all in on river. If he bets the turn u have to decide if you want to go all in or fold.

[tiger7210]

[ QUOTE ]
well, first of all, I don't like the size of your raise preflop. I'd push this flop. It looks like a pretty huge hand when you do this and I think you have some FE still here.



[/ QUOTE ]


why does pushing here look like a big hand. If he had less chips I would agree with this but I would thiking pushing here screams please don't call me.

If I were to follow through and bluff this hand ( which I wouldn't unless I know villain has the ability to lay down AJ/AQ) I would cr here to 1000 to give him the impression that I don't want him to fold and push any non paint on the turn unless its my 7 or I cr all in right here representing AT.

Now I suck so my line probably sucks too, but I would really love for Gavin to give your reasoning on pushing this flop.

[MLG]

This hand never happened. Me/Soss/Gavin just felt like seeing if the forum would disagree with whatever hand we posted.

Nice Job (most of you) you have avoided becoming sycophants.

[Prime Time]

you guys are dopes.

[MLG]

we think we're nerds, nerds with too much time on our hands.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand never happened. Me/Soss/Gavin just felt like seeing if the forum would disagree with whatever hand we posted.

Nice Job (most of you) you have avoided becoming sycophants.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess you guys just must be right most of the time, not us kissing your butt /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[slickpoppa]

clever girls

[CieloAzor]

That explains a lot. I was wondering why their advice was so crappy.

[woodguy]

http://www.jbelectric.us/ot/dumb/kidfinger.jpg

[MLG]

nh /images/graemlins/blush.gif.

[PuertoKid]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand never happened. Me/Soss/Gavin just felt like seeing if the forum would disagree with whatever hand we posted.

Nice Job (most of you) you have avoided becoming sycophants.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. feeling like you got the world by the tail, eh?

[A_PLUS]

I dont know what is sadder, when I know I probably would have ended up agreeing with Soss or Gavin anyway, or that I actually thought that my post was a legit line.

I wonder if this has anything to do with my propensity to blow crazy chip leads with absolutely no good reason?

So your saying, I dont have to win every hand I play huh? I guess that works...in theory at least.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Im in MP with 2500, and the blinds at 50-100. My table is chip heavy though so 3 of the 4 guys after me have me covered. I raise to 350 with 86s. Button with 5k cold calls. Flops is 910A, one of my suit. I check he bets 500, I....

[/ QUOTE ]

The standard move would be to checkraise all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this is a joke? There's nothing standard about c/r all in w/ a gutshot here.

[/ QUOTE ]

to answer your question: yes, i was jopking.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

to answer your question: yes, i was jopking.

[/ QUOTE ]

This jopking business appears to have taken the poker world by storm. Next time I want a poker meme introduced, Paul Phillips is my go-to guy.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand never happened. Me/Soss/Gavin just felt like seeing if the forum would disagree with whatever hand we posted.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought maybe all those beers I had with dinner had me seeing things.

You guys should make an agree/disagree quiz with like 10 scenarios and your thoughts (or fake thoughts) for each one and truly put us to the test.

[Che]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand never happened. Me/Soss/Gavin just felt like seeing if the forum would disagree with whatever hand we posted.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad I read the entire thread before posting. I thought you guys had flipped. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[2005]

This actually has some merit I think. Mike and I were getting the feeling that people were agreeing with us just out of principle. There was even a quote where someone said something to the effect of "If Mike said it, it has to have some merit." No it doesn't necessarily. Just checking up on you guys /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
There was even a quote where someone said something to the effect of "If Mike said it, it has to have some merit." No it doesn't necessarily. Just checking up on you guys

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes there were 2 quotes from the A7o thread from last week:

"when Strassa, MLG, bugstud and I all agree this is a fold, it's a fold."

And:

"when the instincts of someone like MLG say that is a fold, it's a fold."

(I'll just add here that usualy I respect the poster who said those things, as I find his thinking rather interesting and independent in most cases, that's why I was especially disappointed with this kind of argumentation.)

I couldn't find someone who said the same about you Gavin, but I'm sure there are.

I really don't like it when things start to look like this, it becomes a religion more than poker discussion. So it's nice that you have initiated such an imaginary situation/thread to see how people react to questionable advice, but I think that generally there will always be people who'll feel more comfortable just listening to what other, more successful or simply dominating voices have to say before or instead of deciding for themselves.

Especially since many situations in tournament poker are very close or read dependent, doing the thinking for yourself, without being dependent on books/certain mathemtical models/past posts/what MLG or 2005 said/ could make it really tough, and most people are lazy like that.

Nice thread.

BTW, I think the best line with this hand is limping PF and check calling all-in on any flop that doesn't have J in it. Or 4.

[JaBlue]

so you guys feel like superstars or what?

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I think that by far the worst possible line with this hand is limping PF and check calling all-in on any flop that doesn't have J in it. Or 4.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

[GtrHtr]

http://homepages.ius.edu/ANGMORGA/superstar.jpg

[Simplistic]

[ QUOTE ]
This hand never happened. Me/Soss/Gavin just felt like seeing if the forum would disagree with whatever hand we posted.

Nice Job (most of you) you have avoided becoming sycophants.

[/ QUOTE ]it was pretty obvious that the "standard check-raise all-in" is a joke. i was reading the replies and thought there was either heavy sarcasm or this thread was a joke...either that or I need to play alot looser lol

[Scooterdoo]

I was too embarassed by the play and question to even respond. Pretty funny post! Good job.

[adanthar]

Nah. I said that on a play where my gut instinct told me it was a fold, the math (as much of it as I did) backed me up and the first four good people to post all said the same thing. So I got lazy and went with the easy answer. That's a far cry from CR'ing all in with the bottom end of a gutshot on an A-high board /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This hand never happened. Me/Soss/Gavin just felt like seeing if the forum would disagree with whatever hand we posted.

Nice Job (most of you) you have avoided becoming sycophants.

[/ QUOTE ]it was pretty obvious that the "standard check-raise all-in" is a joke. i was reading the replies and thought there was either heavy sarcasm or this thread was a joke...either that or I need to play alot looser lol

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i blew it.