Another hand, a different scenario

[Buckshot]

Seeing as how the other post got flamed and lambasted I'm thankful the discussion was good. There were a few folks out there that felt playing AJ with this table is certainly a +EV move. I played it the way I felt it best played and managed to win. Perhaps I got lucky.

Now, here's a different scenario. The button is a maniac. He loves the word raise. If it is folded to him he will always raise the blinds with any hand. The SB is just about the polar opposite. He hates the word raise. He will play any Ace, for just about any number of bets. He doesn't usually raise premium hands, he's content to call.

You are in the BB vs the maniac's button. It is folded to him and he raises. The SB calls.

You look down to see...5/forums/images/icons/spade.gif 5/forums/images/icons/club.gif. Do you fold, call, raise and is it close?

What if you hold 9/forums/images/icons/spade.gif 9/forums/images/icons/club.gif?

What about 2/forums/images/icons/spade.gif 2/forums/images/icons/club.gif?

~stephen

[Ed Miller]

I'd just call with 55 and 22... and raise with 99. 99 is likely to be a significantly stronger holding than what either of your opponents has... and deserves a raise. 55 and 22 are not looking particularly good against two opponents in a raised pot... and really wouldn't at all mind seeing Mister Set on the flop.

[RINCON]

I would 3 bet with all three hands,and bet out on the flop hoping to be raised by the button,Hopefully you lose the sb. I would check the flop only if an ace hit.if an ace hits check and see if the button bets.If sb calls the bet then fold.If sb folds you might think about check calling the button down,depending on how scary the board is.Checkcalling is one way to deal with a maniac,let him bluff his money off.The key to this question is getting rid of the small blind.Betting out on the flop should do the trick..

RINCON

[Buckshot]

This thread hasn't sparked the discussion I had hoped but nonetheless, it's important to know what's the right thing to do.

With pocket 5's and 2's there's no question that calling is the correct decision since you're getting immediate 5-1 odds to flop your set.

With pocket 9's I think it's an easy reraise since this holding will stand on it's own more often than not. I think it's ~43%.

In the actual hand I reraised with pocket 4's (don't ask) and the button folded. The SB said, "Don't you ever get tired of raising?" and called. I flopped a set and he called me down with Ace high.

After the hand was over I did the math on how often 4's would win vs. a random hand and a guy that will play any Ace and it's ~33%. Therefore a reraise is not warranted.

~stephen

[HDPM]

"After the hand was over I did the math on how often 4's would win vs. a random hand and a guy that will play any Ace and it's ~33%. Therefore a reraise is not warranted."

Here's a problem with sims. Your re-raise might have won you the hand. You should have run a simulation w/ 44 heads-up against an ace. You re-raised a button raiser who folded to the re-raise. This was a catastrophic error by the button, which your simulation does not factor in. When the button folded he was getting great odds on a call, 8-1 if the small blind properly calls, 7-1 immediate odds. Given the SB isn't aggressive the risk of a re-raise is minimal. So if a player is so bad he would fold to your re-raise some of the time, I would re-raise all those pairs. Against even half rational maniacs I'd call w/ the small pairs and re-raise w/ the 9's. Given the fact this guy folded to a re-raise, your play was right. Much better than the play w/ A-Jo IMO. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[Buckshot]

I agree with your post. I thought there would be ~25%-~30% chance that the button would fold to a reraise and I would be able to play heads-up with the SB. Hence it's money ahead for me to have 2 dead bets in the pot.

~stephen

[drewjustdrew]

If you felt one of the players would fold then a reraise would be in order. This is not the case here. Both players will see the flop no matter what. I would call and play from there. If he is a button raiser preflop, he is a button bettor post-flop. If you make a good hand, you should be able to get paid off.

The other beauty of this is that you should not get raised off many hands with only one aggressive player. Even if the SB is ahead, he is not likely to check-raise, so you can draw to straights and most likely close the action on each subsequent betting round.

[brad]

maniac folds on button for one more bet? what a weird maniac. also an overcard flops half the time with QQ , so i dont know waht you mean with 99 being 43%.

i would think you would call with all of them although the reraise and bet the flop has merits but i think calling is default.

[Dreamer]

They only work if the hands are around to catch those miracle cards.
example

Random hand 7-2o.

You have AK

Flop is AQJ rainbow.

A small percentage of the time the sim will catch RR 77, 22 or 7-2

Who in their right mind would call a bet with no draws, pairs or overcards?
The sim does!

The more you can outplay your opponents after the flop, the more hands you should consider raising with.

D.