2nd greatest football coach?

[marbles]

With regional/team loyalties, I figure this should spark enough debate to justify its own thread.

First, I assume we can all name Lombardi as the top football coach in history (and that's coming from a Bear fan). But who's #2?

I'll give mine in a little while.

[Clarkmeister]

Parcels

[marbles]

Interesting that you would pick the Tuna, considering that all could be easily associated with one specific team. He is a solid choice, although not my #2.

Totally unrelated trivia you might appreciate:
What jockey holds the Arlington Park record for wins in a day?

[Clarkmeister]

My first guess would be Shane Sellers. Second guess Pat Day.

[B-Man]

It is so tough to compare coaches from different eras, and Lombardi was way before my time, so I can't really comment on him.

Bill Parcells is the best coach I have ever seen--he took all three teams he coached to the conference champiponship, two to the Super Bowl, went to three Super Bowls, won it twice, and pulled a big upset when his Giants beat the Bills.

Bill Walsh should also get consideration because he revolutionized offense, won three Super Bowls, and built a team that would win two more Super Bowls after he retired.

The best coaching job I have seen for both one season and for a Super Bowl was turned in by Bill Belichick, last season.

[marbles]

I thought I'd get ya on this one. Actually, it was Jorge Valesquez with 7. It was during one of the lean years just after Pat Day left, and Velasquez ran up huge numbers against shoddy competition. I'm not sure Sellers was even there then.

Incidentally, that was also the summer that super-cheat Noel Hickey broke just about every turf record the course had.

[Clarkmeister]

I loved that super cheat. Wait for the Hickey first lasix horses on the turf and fire your rent check at it. Trifectas are amazingly easy to hit when you know for sure who is going to win.

[marbles]

While Walsh and Parcells are obviously the modern-day gurus in the pros, I still can't put either over Bear Bryant. I'll try to post the website for the guy, but the stats are obsurd! A few that screamed at me: 31 bowl games (back when bowl games meant something), 57-game home winning streak.

bear bryant (http://www.rolltide.com/Football/4760.asp)

[marbles]

I have to admit, I made a few bucks on the guy too. Kinda felt dirty doing it, but as long as the track is willing to take the action, what else can you do?

[RINCON]

/forums/images/icons/confused.gif /forums/images/icons/confused.gif /forums/images/icons/confused.gif
Lombardi isn't number one.

Tom Landry invented modern day offense.Multiple receiver sets, receivers in motion etc...As for Bill Parcels he was a good coach but added nothing to the game.Walsh on the other hand did add to the game and change it with the west coast offense.Joe Gibbs was a better coach than Parcells!!

Hands down TOM LANDRY #1.

RINCON /forums/images/icons/wink.gif /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

[IrishHand]

What does adding something to the game have to do with being a great coach? I thought a coach's job was to win, not be innovative. My mistake.

[marbles]

"Tom Landry invented modern day offense."
-And Knute Rockne invented the forward pass and basic backfield motion. Walsh is the master of the West Coast. Buddy Ryan is credited with the 46, and, depending on who you ask, either Martz or Vermeil invented the spread offense.

Yet none of them ever did more with less talent than Lombardi. And they'd be the first to tell you that (if they were all alive, that is). If great coaching were all about innovations, then yes, these guys would have to get serious consideration... But that ain't the half of it.

[RINCON]

Wins losses,and ties through 1996
For NFL teams active in 1960
Dallas Cowboys 318 wins 206 lossses and 6 ties 60%winnning%

49ers 293 wins 227 losses 10 ties 55.23winning%

Browns 286 wins 236 losses 8 ties 53.96winning%

Steelers 281 wins 241losses 8ties 53.01winning%

Tom Landry was a winner!!!

RINCON

[marbles]

All right, I'm really busy at work right now, so do me a favor and look up Lombardi's win/loss record and post that. And while you're at it, post the Packers record prior to his arrival (a decade or so ought to do the trick).

Landry was indeed a great coach... But he's no Lombardi.

[B-Man]

Wins losses,and ties through 1996
For NFL teams active in 1960
Dallas Cowboys 318 wins 206 lossses and 6 ties 60%winnning

Dallas was a powerhouse in the early 1990s, and won 3 Super Bowls. However, I fail to see how this helps your argument on Tom Landry since Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer were the coaches at that time, not Landry!

I agree Landry was a very good coach in his day, and yes, a winner. I disagree that he was the best coach ever, and I think you are hurting your credibility if you are trying to claim for Landry the accomplishments of Jimmy Johnson & Switzer (who admittedly had a pretty easy job since Johnson had built such a great team).

By the way, George Seifert had the best winning percentage in NFL history before he took the Carolina job, and won two Super Bowls, does that make him the best coach ever?

[IrishHand]

As requested (includes playoff games):

Vince Lombardi: 105 35 6 .740 in 10 years (top win % in history though not even top 25 all-time in wins)
Tom Landry: 270 178 6 .601 in 40 years (3rd in wins, 3rd in win %)

other notables:

Bill Parcells: 149 106 1 .584 in 15 years (13th in wins, 13th in win %)
Don Shula: 347 173 6 .665 in 33 years (1st in wins, 6th in win %)
George Halas: 324 151 31 .671 in 40 years (2nd in wins, 5th in win %)

Also...John Madden had a record that was nearly identical to Vince Lombardi's:
John Madden: 112 39 7 .731 in 10 years (23rd in wins, 2nd in win %)

[marbles]

"Also...John Madden had a record that was nearly identical to Vince Lombardi's:
John Madden: 112 39 7 .731 in 10 years (23rd in wins, 2nd in win %)"

Funny you should mention Madden. I once saw an interview w/Madden where he talked about meeting Lombardi. He had gone to a coaching clinic where Lombardi was speaking, and looked forward to hearing Lombardi talk for a few minutes on leadership, strategy, etc. Instead, Lombardi stood by a chalkboard and talked about the halfback sweep... For eight hours.

Madden said something down the lines of, "I didn't realize how little I knew about football until that day."

And if you're pointing to Lombardi's total wins as if it's some sort of flaw, I hope you realize how silly that is.

[IrishHand]

How about you re-read my post. I'm pretty sure exactly zero opinions were contained in it. Yes, I thought it was interesting that Madden had a similar record to Lombardi. I guess I should clarify that I found it interesting because I had no idea that Madden had such a good coaching record (to me, he's the fat guy who's on MNF and sponsors a good video game). Other than that, I have no opinion about the current coaching debate. I don't know nearly enough about pre-1990 football to have an informed opinion - which is why I didn't state one.

Irish