TT with no overcards on flop

[adsman]

Villians stats are 66%/0/3.33 Quite an interesting combination. Apart from that I haven't noticed anything in particular - no crazy bluffs etc.
Is this just standard?



Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 (poster) calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.25 BB

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
Villians stats are 66%/0/3.33

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this just standard?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much.

[Talex]

Ugh, I really hate just using stats in situations like this, they don't tell me what I really want to know about Villain. That 66% preflop, is that coldcalling raises or does he just limp a whole lot? Does he coldcall with big pairs instead of reraising? Also, "no crazy bluffs" and 3.33 postflop agression seems somewhat counterintuitive to me.

On the turn you're ahead of an overplayed 4 or 5 (Does he coldcall with hands with a 4 or 5 in them?), 66, 77, 88, and maybe a turned flushdraw that he's aggressive with (another thing I'd like to know that his stats won't tell me, does he like to bet his flushdraws?) And overcards. You're behind big pairs and nines. So, I think calling his raise is probably fine without a more specific read. On the river you're no longer beating 77, but I think the check/call is also a fine way to handle it.

Anyway, this was mostly a post about why stats aren't as useful as a real read. You played this fine.

-Tim

[benkath1]

That's how I'd play it. I still can't figure out the stop n go. This is kind of like a reverse stop n go isn't it?

[Fantam]

When button raises the flop, I put him on at least a set of 9s. There are no flush or straight draws available, and I doubt that he would raise with a small pocket pair or overcards.

That means that you are most likely behind and drawing to only 2 outs. Therefore I would call the flop raise, and check and fold to a turn bet, assuming another T didnt fall.

I wouldnt have called this hand to the river.

[AmarilloJim1]

I agree with fantam.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
When button raises the flop, I put him on at least a set of 9s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa.....there is no reason at _all_ to assume this.

This is a paired board. A preflop raiser more often than not has 2 big non-paired cards. Any pocket pair, any 4, and any aggressive player will often raise here with _far_ less than trip 9's. If you just call the raise, they will put you on something like Ax. 3-betting usually will make them think you have a pair.

When he raises the turn you can start to be scared of the trips, but against an unknown it still makes sense to call down as you're probably only behind to trip 9's.

If you throw this away on the flop without a very good read, you have a huge leak imho.

[car ramrod]

I think a fold on the river is the best play, but I am not good enough to make it yet.

I like the flop 3 bet, but when he doesn't slow down on the turn, I think he has the 9.

[bubbahotep]

I play it the same as OP.

[jrz1972]

I can go back into my PT database and show you like a gazillion hands where somebody like Button has played a 4 this way. Even after the turn raise, I am going to be somewhat surprised if I go on to lose this hand.

Folding the river would be awful.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
I think a fold on the river is the best play, but I am not good enough to make it yet.

I like the flop 3 bet, but when he doesn't slow down on the turn, I think he has the 9.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold to the turn raise then.

[car ramrod]

is that weak tight, or do you agree? Would you call down with out a read?

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
When he raises the turn you can start to be scared of the trips, but against an unknown it still makes sense to call down as you're probably only behind to trip 9's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, if you decide he's holding a 9 on the turn, after his raise you're getting around 11-1 to draw to 2 outs with 1 card to come. That _doesn't_ make sense.

However, given his postflop agg number (3-something, right?), I'd say he's likely to be of the sort of player that comes in with lots of hands, but then has trouble letting go of the strong ones when they miss the flop.

I'd go back and break out his postflop agg numbers; does he give up on missed weak hands early, but push stronger hands regardless of whether he hit the flop?

[MrWookie47]

I agree that the decision in response to the turn raise is to either fold on the spot or call down rather than call and fold the river. I'd probably call down, but I'd expect to see a 9 after that turn raise. I can see folding on the spot, however. That high agg. factor makes me want to call down. If it was &lt; 1, folding is clearly better.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
is that weak tight, or do you agree? Would you call down with out a read?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think a calldown is a bad choice. we have to be good about 1 in 7 times to calldown... or 3 in 21.

fudging the numbers a bit.. our 2 outer will save us 1 of those 21 times.

so we have to be good UI roughly 1 in 10 times. those aren't bad odds to lookup someone with.

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When he raises the turn you can start to be scared of the trips, but against an unknown it still makes sense to call down as you're probably only behind to trip 9's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, if you decide he's holding a 9 on the turn, after his raise you're getting around 11-1 to draw to 2 outs with 1 card to come. That _doesn't_ make sense.

However, given his postflop agg number (3-something, right?), I'd say he's likely to be of the sort of player that comes in with lots of hands, but then has trouble letting go of the strong ones when they miss the flop.

I'd go back and break out his postflop agg numbers; does he give up on missed weak hands early, but push stronger hands regardless of whether he hit the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, not a bad idea. The results were interesting. Villian never folded once after going to the flop, (this is over 47 hands). Flop AF is 1.4 Turn AF is 4.00 River AF is 0.00

I did something different today - I multi-tabled, and this was the results. I had the stats but not the reads. Normally I only play one table, I concentrate hard and I watch everything that's going on. Today I played 3 tables because my buddy list was juiced up to the max and as a result I couldn't do my normal table reading. When I said in the original post that I hadn't seen villian doing anything stupid, it was true. I hadn't seen anything. I'm going back to one tabling. I like it more and I don't miss out on crucial reads that are needed in tough situations like this.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
I did something different today - I multi-tabled, and this was the results. I had the stats but not the reads. Normally I only play one table, I concentrate hard and I watch everything that's going on. Today I played 3 tables because my buddy list was juiced up to the max and as a result I couldn't do my normal table reading. When I said in the original post that I hadn't seen villian doing anything stupid, it was true. I hadn't seen anything. I'm going back to one tabling. I like it more and I don't miss out on crucial reads that are needed in tough situations like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could also try 2 tables /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I did something different today - I multi-tabled, and this was the results. I had the stats but not the reads. Normally I only play one table, I concentrate hard and I watch everything that's going on. Today I played 3 tables because my buddy list was juiced up to the max and as a result I couldn't do my normal table reading. When I said in the original post that I hadn't seen villian doing anything stupid, it was true. I hadn't seen anything. I'm going back to one tabling. I like it more and I don't miss out on crucial reads that are needed in tough situations like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

You could also try 2 tables /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I had five of the juiciest fish on my buddy list spread out over 3 tables. I've never seen that before and I got a bit greedy. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[gopnik]

yeah, looks standard