AJo against a good, aggressive opponent.

[Entity]

BB is 2+2er from my 86s hand. Seems good, very aggressive -- possibly too aggressive at times. Overall, he seems like a solid player though.

One limper to me and I raise OTB with AJo. SB calls, 2+2er calls in the BB, and limper calls.

The flop is A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifK/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/club.gif. Checked to me and I bet. 2+2er raises. Everyone folds. I call planning on raising the turn.

The turn is the 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif. He checks, I bet, he checkraises. Now I reevaluate and 3-bet, planning on calling if capped but folding to a river bet UI, and checking behind on the river.

Good for EV? Good for metagame considerations? Or just plain spewing?

Rob

[Isura]

I don't see many hands that villian calls a 3-bet on the turn. He's either capping JT or folding IMO. Looks like he realized you have a pair, and he's trying to push you off the hand on the turn. I'd probably call the turn, and bet the river for value when villian checks his 66, QTs or whatever. The thing I don't like about 3-betting the turn is that I don't put villian on any hands that will pay off on the turn but fold the river. There's no chance he's semi-bluffing here, so I don't see the purpose in charging and risking a cap. I'd be happy with 2BB on the turn, and 1 BB possibly on the river.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
just plain spewing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Krishan

[MrWookie47]

I'd probably call the turn check/raise and call a river bet for the same 2 BB you spend by 3 betting (or one less if he caps you). You get an extra BB out of him if he is bluffing.

[SomethingClever]

I don't think it's looking good for you here.

I don't think a 2p2er is raising the flop then checkraising the turn with less than TPGK on that board against another 2p2er.

You're crushed against JT and AQ, and significantly behind KQ.

I don't think he pulls this move with hands like KT, KJ, 99 or TT because it's too likely you have an A.

I don't think folding to the turn CR is horrible, but you could call down in case he has a worse A, and there's a chance the river could counterfeit his two pair if he does have KQ.

[Isura]

I think folding the turn is a mistake. I think 2 pair would have led the turn, hoping hero calls down. Villain looks pretty weak, so I call down.

[wheelz]

You also have the gutshot outs, so have to call the turn. 3-betting is just spewing IMO

[rory]

You were planning on raising him on the turn and you would be wondering what to do if he 3-bet. But instead he check-raised you on the turn and then you 3-bet. He did you a favor by check-raising you since you were going to raise him anyway because now the two bets went in on the turn that you were planning on putting in on the turn but you don't have to worry about him 3-betting you on the turn. 3 bets on the turn and river with top pair on a scary board like this against a solid player is the right amount of action.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just plain spewing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your line, then?

It's very likely that he has a vulnerable hand that he'd like to fold the field on, given his flop checkraise. So I think JTs is out. He didn't 3-bet preflop, which he would do with AK and AQ. So they're out. That leaves KQ, weaker Aces (like AT), AJ (chop-chop).

He's significantly more likely to checkraise the flop with a weaker hand. Checkraising the turn is generally a strongish hand, but he'd play top pair like this in a similar way.

Rob

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just plain spewing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your line, then?

It's very likely that he has a vulnerable hand that he'd like to fold the field on, given his flop checkraise. So I think JTs is out. He didn't 3-bet preflop, which he would do with AK and AQ. So they're out. That leaves KQ, weaker Aces (like AT), AJ (chop-chop).

He's significantly more likely to checkraise the flop with a weaker hand. Checkraising the turn is generally a strongish hand, but he'd play top pair like this in a similar way.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

2 things. I didn't notice that he cr'ed the flop. And I forgot about gutshot outs.

Given all this, calling down to his cr seems ideal.

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just plain spewing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your line, then?

It's very likely that he has a vulnerable hand that he'd like to fold the field on, given his flop checkraise. So I think JTs is out. He didn't 3-bet preflop, which he would do with AK and AQ. So they're out. That leaves KQ, weaker Aces (like AT), AJ (chop-chop).

He's significantly more likely to checkraise the flop with a weaker hand. Checkraising the turn is generally a strongish hand, but he'd play top pair like this in a similar way.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

This board sucks for protecting your hand. You can't protect your hand unless you have the best hand to start. Villian's play here is bad. The flop cr is bad. The turn cr is bad. But you don't have a great hand. So you should call down after the turn cr.

The line villian choose isn't a thinking players line. Because of this, I don't think you can hand read it effectively. Because I can't hand read it effectively I think calling is best. I don't like pumping hands that are played strangly. Strangly played hands are often bluffs or monsters.

Krishan

[Isura]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just plain spewing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

What's your line, then?

It's very likely that he has a vulnerable hand that he'd like to fold the field on, given his flop checkraise. So I think JTs is out. He didn't 3-bet preflop, which he would do with AK and AQ. So they're out. That leaves KQ, weaker Aces (like AT), AJ (chop-chop).

He's significantly more likely to checkraise the flop with a weaker hand. Checkraising the turn is generally a strongish hand, but he'd play top pair like this in a similar way.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

How about KJ, AT ? I really think villian would have bet out a very strong hand like 2 pair on the turn. He probably thinks you are capable of raising a weak ace, for a free showdown, and will probably call with a good King and better. So he sees the possibility of 3-betting the turn with a very strong hand as a better alternative to check/raising. So I really can't put villian on a super strong hand here. The river is pretty interesting when he checks, but I think I spew and try to squeeze out another value bet. If he can pull the check-raise on 3 straight streets I can live with folding to a river check/raise.

[MAxx]

i gotta say that i like your line for your reasons indicated.

I think on this turn, you can only realistically be behind KQ or A4... unless he did something really out of character with a monster.

[Kasumeat]

Everybody here is saying that the villain's line is indicating weakness. Wouldn't it be a good line for JT or KQ to take against a thinking TAG?

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
You're crushed against JT and AQ, and significantly behind KQ.

[/ QUOTE ]
We aren't "crushed" against AQ. We have four outs to the straight and three kings for a chop, so that's worth a little more than five outs and we are getting 9-to-1 to call check-raise, so we should continue. And against KQ we have a dozen outs (aces, jacks, tens, fours).

[MAxx]

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody here is saying that the villain's line is indicating weakness. Wouldn't it be a good line for JT or KQ to take against a thinking TAG?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have JTo here, do you really want to cr the flop to isolate the pfr? The answer is no. You would be devising a sceme to get the most money in the pot. There are other players in the hand to take money from, not just the TAG sitting on the button.

You may do this with KQ, but I think A tag would still rather try to bet/3bet the flop with KQ.

If villain does have KQ that is not desireable, but it is not nearly as bad as JT (as we have several outs vs KQ here vers only a few to a split with JT)... and this villain will almost never have JT and checkraise the flop with this relative position. If he does, he does it when he knows everone likes to call 2 cold and/or is being overly tricky.