What do you think of the play of this hand

[Buccaneer]

This is the last hand I am playing in for a long time. I am steaming right now. I would like to know what you think of this hand. Feel free to take the gloves off and give me a good beating. Tear this one apart. Feel free to rip me also if you need to but I need an honest evaluation of this hand.

I have not identified myself in this hand. I want to know what you would have gone to showdown with if you were either player in the showdown.

Please analyze the agression in this hand.

Is this cruel cards or were they played badly? If so where and how.

I know this is not the normal format for here but I think I can learn more this way.

My comments and results in white.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop:
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MPA calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, MPA calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, SB folds.

Flop: (9 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MPA bets</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, BB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MPA bets</font>, MP2 calls, BB folds.

River: (8 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MPA bets</font>, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Results and my comments in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
I am MPA. Studies include TOP, SSHE, GSIHE.
SSHE section on playing over cards fresh in my mind.
MPA Calls with As Tc, BB raises we loose the SB to the raise and I call. 4 players to flop.
FLOP- I like it. Top pair with good kicker (I know this hand can be dominated but we can reduce the players to reduce the odds of this) and the NUT FLUSH draw. No one with junk would have stayed in for the flop except BB who is getting frisky but we lost SB so lets go for it. I bet to settle BB down and build the pot.
TURN - 5s hits, top pair and 4 to the nun flush draw!!!! But wait, is that a straight flush draw on the board? I think this one through. 1) straight flush on board 2) hey that spade helps me too 3) the BB is the only one who could possibly have undercards, right? 4) Miller whispers in my ear, "bet the nut flush draw, show strength, a bet may flush out (no pun) BB if he has made hand. MPA bets and BB folds!!!! I thank Miller under my breath and start to count chips.
RIVER - An Ace!!!! I have made trips. Miller whispers in ear "relax, there is still money to be made. Don't forget to value bet the hand" MPA bets and waits for that whimp MP2, who has shown no agression the whole hand, to fold or bet. The fool bets, doesn't he know he is beat? Doesn't he know that I had to have an A or maybe even AA? OK I have to wait for the chips to slide across the table to me. I can wait one more second........... Yes the chips slid but in the wrong direction.
MPA has Tc As (three of a kind, aces).
MP2 has 3h 2h (straight, six high).
Outcome: MP2 wins 10 BB. </font>

[cold_cash]

I'm not a fan of your initial limp.

After that I think you played it okay. MP2 missed at least two bets. Sometimes people play with crap and win; that's life in the big city. Chin up.

This format is kinda weird/confusing.

[milesdyson]

Far from a bad beat? You lost like nothing on this hand.

Never play 6-max. You would probably kill yourself.

[Buccaneer]

Would you have been able to give the opponent credit for a made straight? thanks

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you have been able to give the opponent credit for a made straight? thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not.

Don't beat yourself up because you didn't see this coming.

Be glad he screwed the pooch so badly and saved you a few bets, then make a note and move on.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
Far from a bad beat? You lost like nothing on this hand.

[/ QUOTE ] I do not understand what you are saying. [ QUOTE ]
Never play 6-max. You would probably kill yourself.

[/ QUOTE ] I have played a short session and was lucky and won! I think I will follow your advice, I am having too much fun at these tables. later.

[milesdyson]

I'm saying the hand wasn't close to being a bad beat. Why I put a ? at the end of the remark... we may never find out.

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying the hand wasn't close to being a bad beat.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't post bad beats. I did that once and that was quite enough for me.

I am wanting to know if I played the hand properly. If so then what did I overlook? Odds? Agression? Passive play of opponent? Hand strength? Position? Pre-flop, flop, turn, or river play? Any way I just want to improve if my play was weak, if it was ok then I will continue to play this way.

[afk]

I don't like your open limp. I think you should raise or fold. I usually fold and leave ATo until late middle to play. Your flop, turn and river play are standard.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm saying the hand wasn't close to being a bad beat.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't post bad beats. I did that once and that was quite enough for me.

I am wanting to know if I played the hand properly. If so then what did I overlook? Odds? Agression? Passive play of opponent? Hand strength? Position? Pre-flop, flop, turn, or river play? Any way I just want to improve if my play was weak, if it was ok then I will continue to play this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would not have open limped with ATo from middle position. i would have raised. (or folded). calling imho is the worst option.

aside from that you played the hand fine.

this hand should make you chuckle, smile, sigh, shrug or nod, not steam. take a break from the game.

[Marquis]

Preflop is bad. The format of the post is bad. You can't win every hand, get over it. You barely lost anything as it was.

[itsmesteve]

the only way to avoid someone limping with this garbage behind you is to raise AT preflop. i'm sure its already been said, but that's the only thing i'd do differently in this hand.

[Siegmund]

I wonder what the BB had. KQs? Overly agressive with a 55?

I was putting MPA on a flush draw that came in and MP2 on the AT or suited small ace that didn't make 2 pair, since there wasn't any raising. In retrospect, suited connectors that made a straight but were afraid of the flush is a possibility, but not one that occurred to me until after I read the results.

Make a note on MP2 as a loose-passive. I think I could have found a turn raise (and a preflop fold) holding 32s.

[deception5]

Here is the thing about Poker. You can't win every hand. You won't always know when you are behind. By betting to the river here you will lose money when you are behind. You could easily be behind something like AK here or 66. You could also be way ahead. This doesn't mean you played the hand wrong. When you are ahead here (which is a fair amount of the time) you make money by charging your opponent to draw against you.

The way your opponent played this hand, they made very little off of you when you would have paid more (they didn't even raise the river). They limped in with 32 /images/graemlins/spade.gif giving you a big edge preflop. Your opponents mistakes make you money. If you aren't looking at the big picture here you are playing the wrong game. You will lose bigger pots with stronger hands against players who call down against your aces with 73o and hit runner runner 3's. But these same players that you are paying off here are going to give you your money back if you play better than them.

[ QUOTE ]
This is the last hand I am playing in for a long time. I am steaming right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is really how you feel, then you really need to reevaluate whether you want to be playing poker. These should be your _favorite_ people to play with. Would it have made you feel better to lose against AJ who made it more expensive to show down?

[Schwartzy61]

All these people wanna raise w/ AT and knock out lowly aces that would pay off top pair? Your raise could also knock out other hands with Ts that you dominate that would pay off. What your raise won't do is knock out the hands that have YOU dominated.

It's 9 handed and you are basically borderline MP/EP. Limp here, get a couple to come in behind you, build a pot and hopefully get paid off.

You should limp to attract a hand like 32, raising here simply limits everyone to better hands. I don't like it. If raising leaves you heads up with the blinds you basically gain nothing. If the flop comes all low you are probably behind. If the flop comes all high cards Blinds aren't gonna pay off without a piece of the flop.

So you are gonna risk a raise from early MP for a blind steal? That's too big a risk in my book, guess I'm just a weak tight pansy...

As for the actual hand, you cannot protect your hand against any of the draws so value bettting is about all you can do. Curse the BB for his passive postflop play. You could consider checking it through to hopefully protect your hand on the turn, but I think betting is the best play.

Ah flush hits, may as well keep betting, 3 spades doesn't mean someone has a flush, be prepared to release to resistance however.

Sweet 3rd ace. Keep betting, the guy calls you down, must have a weak ace as well, seems like the limping worked. WTF, 32, I wouldn't play that crap, damn it. OMG that guy sucks, look how much money he saved me by not raising at any point in this hand, I am thinking as I type NH into the chat box encouraging the fishies to limp more often with trash like that...

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
You should limp to attract a hand like 32, raising here simply limits everyone to better hands. I don't like it. If raising leaves you heads up with the blinds you basically gain nothing. If the flop comes all low you are probably behind. If the flop comes all high cards Blinds aren't gonna pay off without a piece of the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

So why raise with AKs? AA?

[Schwartzy61]

Raising w/ AA or AKs or any other premium hand doesn't limit the field to hands that are bettter than yours. It keeps the strong hands around long enough to pay you off. You can't say the same about AT.

AT is a marginal hand

AA is a premium hand

Pretty big difference in my book.

The question becomes what are you trying to accomplish with your raise? With AA you are trying to build a large pot and aren't worried about what everyone has. With AT you have to be worried about the other holdings because there are a lot more hands that beat you that will call 2 cold or reraise your ass. So with AT your raise must be to steal the blinds, and I don't think it's worth that kind of risk...

I guess I'm just a risk averse weak tighty...

Edit, added this:

Do you raise w/ 66 or 55 first in from MP1? What about 86s. If so you are much more aggressive than I will ever be. If you don't why do you raise ATo but not the other three which are close in value?

[Buccaneer]

[ QUOTE ]
If this is really how you feel, then you really need to reevaluate whether you want to be playing poker. These should be your _favorite_ people to play with. Would it have made you feel better to lose against AJ who made it more expensive to show down?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am reevaluating right now. Everything you say is correct.

Having said that I think I am getting better. I think that the 2+2 publications are helping my game as is reading this forum. I have invested $500 and my br is a little over $700 right now. I have been lucky and I recognize my little 200 profit for what it is - mostly luck. But it is also from play I have picked up here. I just do not want to mistake this run of bad luck for bad play and change my play if it is correct. I think that would be a disaster. I am willing to listen to those with more experience than me. Thats why I post here. Thanks.

[RcrdBoy]

[ QUOTE ]
All these people wanna raise w/ AT and knock out lowly aces that would pay off top pair? Your raise could also knock out other hands with Ts that you dominate that would pay off. What your raise won't do is knock out the hands that have YOU dominated.

It's 9 handed and you are basically borderline MP/EP. Limp here, get a couple to come in behind you, build a pot and hopefully get paid off.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bad advice.

ATo is not a good multiway hand. What if you limp and it gets raised behind you? Are you going to fold? Someone could be seeing your limp sensing weakness and popping you with KQ or KTs. How will you know where you stand? I'd rather get 3 bet oop. Limping this hand makes it way more difficult to play post flop.

If you can't raise it from this postion then throw it away. Don't limp with this hand unless it's from the blinds or maybe the button.