weird hand

[TStoneMBD]

BB is 75/1/.5 after 85 hands
UTG is 56/22/2.2 after 105 hands

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls, BB calls.

River: (13.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

[kapw7]

I would say UTG has something like Ahxh and when he saw there was action on the flop he raised and then raised the turn when the ace fell. And BB something like AK-hopefully not AA. Nice C-R on the river. I wish I could play like this. My river play sucks.

[MecosKing]

Interesting.

I have to think you beat the BB with Tp2p unless he had ATh. UTG on the other hand, is a tougher one.

More I think about it, if UTG is weak, i bet he has a set...I doubt he'd come in UTG with the rags he needs to flop a straight here, soooted or not...

If hes not weak, you may have squeaked thru and him had 67s...But my guess is 33 or 66, and he only slowed down because the straight made it on the river (Its a very draw heavy board, and you cold called the 2 turn bets, so he migtve thought you had an OESFD type hand like 89s that got there- hence no river 3 bet) Had you 3 bet turn youd have a lot more info, cuz if he capped, you know your in trouble.

My verdict for what its worth is that he had a set. If your lucky maybe you chopped?

[Trix]

I bet-call the turn as he usually either has a draw or a big hand.
I dont think you can check-raise the river for value unless BB is very bad, but it seems close. UTG looks like Axh or 76 that slowed down on the river.
Maybe putting BB on AT is too narrow, but it´s what makes the most sense even though he doesn´t raise much preflop.

[gaming_mouse]

What were you putting BB on? And did you think that BB thought that UTG was raising the turn for a free showdown UI? Because if you don't think so, what could he have? A strong A? AT? A lower 2 pair than you? These all seem reasonable, with AT or a strong A being more or less likely depending on if he'd bet the flop there with overs (he seems kind of passive for this, though).

Just curious on your specific thinking.

[TStoneMBD]

my thought process was this:

hrm, looks like UTG either has a set or a big draw. my hand sucks so ill just call and fold the turn.

turn:

oh cool i have top 2 pair now, this is probably good unless utg really does have that set. rather than bet out, i think i will check because BB will probably bet his pair of aces now, since that is his most likely holding. hopefully it doesnt get checked around.

BB bets, UTG raises, oh damn, i guess he really does have that set. i call.

river: T

BB bets, UTG calls...

hrm, it looks like BB has AT now, but he could easily have AK and is just dumb. Looks like UTG definitely is beat here. must be 67. i raise.


results:

both players call. BB shows 88 (????!?!) UTG shows 67.

[sy_or_bust]

BB has a big pair, apparantly KK. Passive, free-limping players with a PFR near 1 just don't value raise without a monster. I'm not even confident that AKs is in the range.

UTG probably has Axs or 2-pair, which would explain his flop and turn play, but LAG players tend to do perplexing things with their hands. Then again, he could have a set, though the river sort of rules this out unless he is a clever player.

If you rule out AA (BB re-raises turn) and rule out a low set (UTG calls river), I think you win this pot close to 100%. That makes it a gutsy raise, but a good one. Does this logic work?

results edit: of course, for those times when BB holds a ridiculous hand, your equity only improves /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nate tha' Great]

Fold preflop when it comes back around to you.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]

BB bets, UTG raises, oh damn, i guess he really does have that set. i call.

[/ QUOTE ]
if you thought this, why didn't you fold? did you think there was a good enough chance that he was bluffing or semibluffing?

[SGS]

That's what I was thinking

SGS

[TStoneMBD]

i really dont think i can fold top 2 pair here. i think UTG will have a set more often than he has other hands, but i dont know him well enough. he could easily have many other hands like 67 or a smaller aces up. folding this here would be ridiculous.

i also dont think 3betting the turn is close. doesnt make sense. i lose an extra bet when behind to UTG and i eliminate the BB when hes drawing to 3 outs.


looking back, nate is right. i definitely should have folded this preflop. my policy from the sb is that once i complete, im not going to fold if the bb raises. obviously this is flawed, especially in situations like this. its habit for me to autocall this, but certainly wrong.

[albanat0r]

I disagree. Getting 5/1 odds with an ace preflop warrants a call, unless you can say with absolute certainty that BB has a big pair or big ace.

The flop you played fine.

The turn you should have reraised if you put BB on an ace. The pot is already decent enough to protect, and you gotta make him draw if he wants to hit his kicker, which he probably will at these limits with a high ace. As it turns out that wasn't the case, but that's what any thinking player would have him on. You also can't put UTG on a set enough to not put in another raise with top 2- I would have him on the same or lower two pair, a monster draw, or depending on how weak he plays preflop a big ace. You simply can't slow down on the turn with this many draws on the board when you are most likely ahead.

The river checkraise was great because you had intended on calling down the UTG bet, but after things played out differently you made a great read.

Under no circumstances would I have considered folding at any point in this hand.


Lee

[Lmn55d]

Nate, if the BB had a more normal PFR, say 10-20, would you fold as well?

[Victor]

i would cap the turn with the intention of putting only 1 bet in on the riv.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. Getting 5/1 odds with an ace preflop warrants a call, unless you can say with absolute certainty that BB has a big pair or big ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

The guy raises 1% of his hands. We're drawing to three outs at best out of position in a bad implied odds situation.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Nate, if the BB had a more normal PFR, say 10-20, would you fold as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd probably call but wouldn't like it very much.

[SGS]

With this hand you have a lot of reverse implied odds to go with your hand. Flop comes 7 high as it did you may be up against an overpair. Flop comes A high you may be up against a bigger A. It will not be easy to get away from either of these situations and therefore I think this would be a tough hand to play out of position against a PF raiser. I think this makes it a fold.

SGS

[albanat0r]

You're right Nate, didn't see the 1% part.