Awesome AA hand, but do I bet the river?

[ClaytonN]

In the past I would have gotten scared by the flop checkraise, but not this time.

What I wonder though, is should I bet the river here?

Common sense tells me no.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

River: (9.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB
</font>

[gharp]

Since you bet the turn and didn't get raised, I think I might go ahead and bet the river. But I'm not sure I'd have bet the turn...

[MrWookie47]

Why did you think you had the best hand on the turn, but not on the river? That 2 changed nothing. You think he'd smooth call a Q or an 8 here? If the 2nd Q fell on the river you might have a case for checking, but it looks like he's calling without the house and without anything that'd be improved by the deuce.

[kapw7]

The way BB played shows more likely a flush draw. So bet the river

[A_C_Slater]

[ QUOTE ]
The way BB played shows more likely a flush draw. So bet the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Then won't he just fold?

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you think you had the best hand on the turn, but not on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I had villain on a flush draw.

The river is a whole different scenario. Looking back I could easily see villain calling down with an 8 (but why checkraise the flop with an 8?)

No better hands fold, and no worse hands call on the river, I think.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
The way BB played shows more likely a flush draw. So bet the river

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why NOT to bet the river.

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
The way BB played shows more likely a flush draw. So bet the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would he check-raise a flush draw?

[gharp]

Do most 1/2 villains c/r their flush draws? Seems to me like he might bet out with it, but I think at these limits most people just call with them. I figured an 8 or Q was more likely, until he didn't raise the turn. Then I was thinking it might be another smaller PP.

[scotty34]

You don't think a mid to low pocket pair is calling this river?

[ClaytonN]

Low pocket pairs wont call because the board is QQ88
I highly doubt 99 or TT would call, but more importantly I HIGHLY doubt they would checkraise this flop.

The turn bet is actually intriguing, too. My read said "Flush draw!" so I pumped the turn again. If I got checkraised, I'm not sure what I would have done.

Methinks the other villain also had a flush draw but decided to get away from the hand with that board.

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you think you had the best hand on the turn, but not on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I had villain on a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would villain check-raise the flop and blow away the field with a flush draw? I'd put him on a pocket pair higher than 8, and bet the river.

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
Low pocket pairs wont call because the board is QQ88
I highly doubt 99 or TT would call, but more importantly I HIGHLY doubt they would checkraise this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? If I'm villain, I check-raise here with 99 or TT every day and twice on Sundays. You could easily have something like AK/AJ and missed the flop, and a raised pot multi-way is worth taking a stand in.

An 8 would more likely bet the flop and hope to 3-bet. A Q might check-raise hoping to chase out overcards, but then the turn check-call doesn't make any sense.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]
Low pocket pairs wont call because the board is QQ88

[/ QUOTE ] I am an idiot (though I have seen dumber plays). This could be consistent with 99 or TT though certainly.

[ClaytonN]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would villain check-raise the flop and blow away the field with a flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not exactly blowing the field away, it was 3 to the flop. Likely he's doing it to represent the 8 and get a free card on the turn (where he also might have had clean overs to the Q). Again, not optimal, but I'm thinking in the eyes of the typical opponents I face at the 1/2 level.

What I'm afraid of is him calling down with an 8 (which isn't the worst thing in the world) or him getting tricky again and checkraising on a big bet street.

I can understand why you think 99-JJ would also play this way, but I just don't see it.

[ClaytonN]

Villain had A2 of clubs.

Funny thing is, before I checked, I yelled "YOUR FLUSH DRAW SUCKS! :O" and lo and behold, flush draw!

That got me beaming, haha.

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The way BB played shows more likely a flush draw. So bet the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Then won't he just fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

OK then. Check... What are you talking about?

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain had A2 of clubs.

Funny thing is, before I checked, I yelled "YOUR FLUSH DRAW SUCKS! :O" and lo and behold, flush draw!

That got me beaming, haha.

[/ QUOTE ]

...And you probably missed one bet at the river

[hicherbie]

easy check unless the vill is a retard. nice hand.

[kapw7]

Would you have called if BB had bet on the river?

[scotty34]

It would be pretty dumb not to.

[AlmightyJay]

I feel like he's most likely c/ring you on the flop with a Q or an 8. But then he just calls the turn. He would raise if he had a Q. Maybe he has an 8 and is scared you have a Q. I can't figure out what he has here at all. Maybe he has a flush draw? I'm confused..

I'm gonna go ahead and guess that he has absolutely nothing and was trying to bluff an 8, and slowed down when you 3-bet him. Bet the river.

[AlmightyJay]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The way BB played shows more likely a flush draw. So bet the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Then won't he just fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of bad players will call river bets with A-high on a double paired board, thinking their kicker will win it for them.

[nickg1532]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The way BB played shows more likely a flush draw. So bet the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Then won't he just fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of bad players will call river bets with A-high on a double paired board, thinking their kicker will win it for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. There are alot of players that would have called with A2 /images/graemlins/club.gif here.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Bet. He'll call with 99-JJ and sometimes with ace high, too.

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The way BB played shows more likely a flush draw. So bet the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Then won't he just fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of bad players will call river bets with A-high on a double paired board, thinking their kicker will win it for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would call this river with an ace. I am not giving up 11BB to a possible busted flush draw bluff.

[kapw7]

[ QUOTE ]
It would be pretty dumb not to.

[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly.

[adsman]

I had a hand similair to this a while back. I had rockets. The board ended up being K772K. It was HU. Villian had been aggressive the whole hand and bet into me on the river. I had a long think and then I called. Villian had TT.

[hicherbie]

[ QUOTE ]
A lot of bad players will call river bets with A-high on a double paired board, thinking their kicker will win it for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

usually this doesnt occur when their villian has shown agg on both flop and turn. if clay had checked the turn u would see a A high calldown more often...

[RevAgain]

You played it perfectly, getting checkraised on the river would be miserable and given the action the only losing hand he might call you with is KK and even then only if he was an idiot.

[ClaytonN]

If he bluff checkraises the river, all the better to him.

I never considered the fact that he might call with the ace alone.

This now leans me towards betting the river. He'll call with hands like JJ-99, though I find it hard to believe (again) that people would checkraise a Q88 two clubs flop with that.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
If he bluff checkraises the river, all the better to him.

I never considered the fact that he might call with the ace alone.

This now leans me towards betting the river. He'll call with hands like JJ-99, though I find it hard to believe (again) that people would checkraise a Q88 two clubs flop with that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why not? That is a fine spot to check/raise. The strange thing is that he didn't lead the turn, which should cause you to think he doesn't have one of those hands. He made an aggressive move on the flop, obviously if he thinks his hand is good, he should continue with aggression on the turn. The flop c/r is a good move, though. It is plenty likely that you have AK/AJ/AT/A9 (possibly suited in clubs) and his optimal line in that circumstance would be to c/r the flop and lead the turn.

[mmbt0ne]

I like the river check

The only other possible line is to check behind on the turn and call a river bet (raise an A). I don't like this nearly as much though. Actually, it's an atrocious alternative, but the only other alternative once you get to the turn.