Final Table situation, how wrong was my play?

[axle]

Final Table at a 500$ buy in event in Edmonton, Canada.
5 player left, Im short stack at 220 000, 4th place has about 350 000 in front of him, chip leader has over 800 000. Blinds are 20 000/40 000. Blinds are fairly tight players. Folded to me on the button, I look down at 69 offsuit, instead of folding i decide to try to steal the blinds. Rather than push all in and entice a call from hands like A9 etc by the chip leader, i decide to only raise half my stack to 100 000, making it look like i want a call.. Chip leader calls time, eventually comes over the top all in, folded back to me, i figure he has 2 overcards, possibly a pocket pair from TT-88. Getting 3.5-1 on my money, i decide to call. It was my first real final table. A well known player afterwards told me it was a horrible play and that I should watch tv more. Im just curious how bad you think it really was.

[A_PLUS]

I like the thought to steal the blinds. You have a little over 5X BB. Next round, the BB will be getting close to 2-1 on his call, so your F.E. goes way down. But Im sure you see why pushing is better, especially when you know you have to call a push anyway.

[TheDrone]

Trying to steal here with 69o is ok, only raising half of your stack with 69o is really bad, and calling the rest now that you are pot committed is trivial.

[axle]

I immediatly regretted the raise after I did it, before I even saw the other players react, the worst part of it is, its the first televised Canadian Poker Tour event, with hole cams and everything. Definitly not looking forward to that episode airing.

[A_PLUS]

Ouch.
Just watch it with people who dont really know poker, and say things like. "It is such an advanced play, you could never possibly understand". Throw around terms like Meta-game, Shania, etc. Until the leave you alone.

Good job on the final table though

[RavenJackson]

How was the tournament? I was going to play in it; however, I had previous commitments. I will be at the next one for sure. Were there many local players? How many entrants? I heard KrazyKanuck was playing.

[schwza]

i think it's actually pretty irrelevant whether you push or raise smaller. you're obviously committed either way. but it does look fishy to smake the smaller raise.

[axle]

I really enjoyed the tournament, though they ran the final tables for the limit and no limit tournaments on the same day. We were supposed to show up early for interviews and everything, but since the limit tournament was still going they were all busy. Overall I thought the television production was great, They had a live feed (minus the hole cams of course) playing in the whole casino. I can't wait till the one in Calgary, They're filming that one as well. I need to make the final table and redeem myself.

[PattyMcFatty]

I dont like the play, though its certainly acceptable.. I realize hes pretty short, however, not short enough to NEED to steal this round. Im certain he could have picked a better spot, on top of that, you defenitely dont have enough chips to be fooling around with your raise- its not like your leaving yourself enough so that you can fold to a reraise. I only say this because the chipleader was the BB, correct? The concept of a raise that "looks like it wants a call" doesnt necessarily apply here- he easily moves you in there with a variety of hands b/c he has you well covered. Regardless, GG on final table and certainly dont think you did anything drastically wrong with your play.

[KdoubleK]

I actually like the idea behind this play, its the situation you used it in I don't like. If perhaps you have a somewhat better hand, a few more chips, and aren't against the chip leader this could work. Going in on a short/semishort stack is starting to become standard play, and players who know will open their calling standards especially since they get to see all 5 cards. Raising half your stack basically says "i'm all in" without having to do it and since the blinds know they can't move you off your hand preflop they're reduced to calling a big raise and hoping to hit something. I think having to make a flop decision narrows the range of hands blinds are willing to go to war with.

[betgo]

The raise is not terrible with pot odds and folding equity. You will probably have two live cards if called. You don't mention an ante: an ante makes raising more attractive. With ante, you are getting 1.4-1 pot odds. There is some chance you will take the blinds. In fact, it is not certain that anyone in the blinds has a much better hand. Hands like A4 and 33 will probably call, but will not be big favorites. I think the play is EV+. With 5xBB on the button and an ante, you should probably push with any two cards.

I came in 4th in a live tournament last week. When there were about 50 people left and the blinds and antes were a large portion of my and most players stack, I went allin 6 hands in a row. That built me a stack that took me to the final table.

If you think raising half your stack is more likely to get a fold, that is OK. There really isn't any difference between that and pushing.

[John W]

When betting into a big stack, less is never more. You either push or fold.

[runnerunner]

You need to make this play on a medium stack in the BB. Big stacks don't have to risk too much to call with less than a premium hand. Small stacks are getting good odds to call you with any decent cards. Trying to steal against the chip leader with 69o is terrible, unless you have enough chips to hurt him if he doubles you up.

[Scooterdoo]

The idea behind the play is good, but 1/2 of your stack relative to the BB's stack and the amount he already had in the pot is just begging him to force you all-in with so many potential hands -- any pair, any A, two broadway cards, maybe even worse if he was aggressive. Since you are going to call him anyway if he raises, you probably should have just pushed since at least this takes away one of his options. I would opt to wait for a better situation though, you still had a bit of time.

To me the play works really well when your 1/2 stack bet a) really makes it look like you want a call vs. making it look like you're trying to play it a bit safe AND b) the 1/2 stack bet is meaningful to the opponent to call. For example, at a final table last year at the Commerce I did this against an opponent who was running over the table. I had about 40k and he had 50-60k with 4-5 of us left. He makes a 5k+ raise and I raise him 20k (there was 10k in the pot). I had nothing and didn't want a call, but by betting one-half my stack it looked to my opponent that I was begging him to call and would play for my entire stack since I was pot-committed. In truth I probably would have bailed out if he raised me all-in.

[axle]

Okay, so after I put myself in this horrible situation, what about calling his all in? i was getting 3.5-1 odds (antes were 2000), in a situation where im sure im only a 2-1 dog (There was a possiblity he had a pocket pair somewhere in the range on TT-88, but I figured a much more likely holding was something like AQ or AJ). I'd be left with 120 000, 3x the BB if i had folded. With the pot odds being so favourable, I was sure I had to call, but some other, well respected players told me I shouldve folded and waited for an opportunity when I was a favorite instead. Thoughts on this?

[nightlyraver]

Your logic that a push would invite calls from A9 whereas a simple raise will not is flawed in my opinion, that being your crucial error. This may be true if stacks were very deep, you were the short stack with 25BB's and half the table having more than 100BB's. At that point you can simply raise on a steal with any two and simply get away from the hand if someone comes over the top. However, you only have 5.5BB's meaning that you must win any and every pot you play. Raising 2.5BB's is not a big enough raise to scare people away, it pot commits you, and if a player was prepared to call 5.5BB's w/ A9, he surely will put you all in and force you to call. If possible, the proper strategy would be to attack the big stack where he is most vulnerable. He has almost 4x your stack size and he will use it against you. You must constantly be on the offensive, threatening him with all-in bets and force him to call with a somewhat inferior hand. If you get the chance, a good example if pushing with an A while he's calling with KQ. Contrast that with the reverse - you have the KQ and he leans on you holding A4.

[axle]

The more I think about the play, the more I wish I would've just pushed, I knew he was a very tight player who didn't like calling my raises (earlier in the tournament, when I would make a blind steal, he'd fold, showing me hands like KQs, AJo, etc. He liked being the one doing the raising, so I should've never given him the opportunity to do so. In reality, I should've just mucked my hand as the BB was a looser player, and I still had a bit of time to wait for a better showdown hand somewhere along the lines of A9 or KT.

[Scooterdoo]

I would call once pushed given the pot odds. Think about it this way. If you fold you now need to win a hand in the next orbit at showdown anyway and you could easily be facing multi-way action where you are getting much worse odds than this. Sure you should call at this point.