KK post flop play on a paired flop (party 55s)

[Meatmaw]

I don't think I'm supposed to play meekly on this ever, but any thoughts to the contrary?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t430)
UTG+1 (t1225)
MP1 (t870)
MP2 (t2050)
Hero (t1215)
Button (t1275)
SB (t875)
BB (t2060)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls t100.

Flop: (t325) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t325</font>, BB calls t325.

Turn: (t975) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero....

[Maulik]

if you check here and lose this hand, you're still left w/ t700 chips. that's worth a fight? perhaps not a bad check if you think you're beat, needless to say this is not likely

[wuwei]

The only reason to check behind here is to give him time to catch up/induce river bluffage. Doing anything because you fear he has the T is silly.

[Meatmaw]

I'm assuming that holds even if the T didn't hit the turn, and for any case of an XXY flop where I have an overpair? I'm interested to hear what exceptions or cases might warrant scared play in these cases.

[wuwei]

Yah, it applies even if the T doesn't come on the turn. In a small stack Part game, you don't have time to worry about 1 or 2 cards that can beat you in a situation likes this. There are a number of hands that a typical party player might call flop bets with. Any wired pair, AK, flush draws, etc. Trying to pick out the rare times he has one of those Ts will cost you a lot of money over the long run.

The exceptions I can come up with involve extreme bubble situations, very deep stacks, or players that I read so well I can narrow their calling range down tremendously.

[Meatmaw]

Does this mean you play TT with a QQ5 flop the same way (not fearing the 2 queens still out)?

If the answer is no b/c of the face cards, then what about if you hold 77 on an 882 flop?

[BradleyT]

With the KK hand it's a no brainer, he needs AA or Tx to beat you. With 77 on an 882 flop half the deck you don't want to see on the turn.

[Meatmaw]

[ QUOTE ]
With 77 on an 882 flop half the deck you don't want to see on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes but does the extra risk of someone calling a push with two overcards to your 77 (say, AK) and drawing out (25%) make the difference between pushing with your overcard pair and not?

[45suited]

Am I the only one who thinks that the turn is good? If villain has the case T or aces, you were beat anyway. I value bet this and feel that my hand is good maybe 90% of the time. Then again, I play the 10's... People call with all kinds of junk. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[adanthar]

I don't play 77 on an 882 flop nearly as strongly because people do limp TT-99, along with hands like 98, in an unraised pot. In theory, if I were confident my hand was good right then (against only 1 or 2 people), I'd bet enough on the flop so only a better hand or the rare flush draw would call and then shut down. 55 isn't pushing the river after a checked turn, anyway.

KK on an 882 flop is a different story; a good chunk of the time I simply overbet push because it looks so much like AK that 66 often calls. A TT2 flop is trickier (worse card) but the T on the turn is great for you. However, often enough I still check it to get him to catch his flush. At this point, he's either won the hand or has 2-3 outs.

[Nick M]

I would be a little worried if the flop was say QQ7. But since it's 10 10 7 with 2 hearts I wouldn't be worried at all. When the 3rd 10 comes I might check behind him. Not because I think I'm behind but because I probably have him drawing dead. Unless he has like AQ of hearts. But I say 80% of the time I'm moving in on the turn.