c/r with AA on turn HU - right or wrong?

[Maurader1]

Am I just asking to get flamed for not betting the turn? Or is it actually appropriate in this case?

Villain is tight as far as he has not played a hand since he sat down (about 10 hands)

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+2 calls.

River: (8.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

[DeathDonkey]

The turn CR is going to slow him down, wayyy down. If you bet the flop hoping to get raised, you should have 3 bet him there. Another way to play it would be to lead the turn and hope to 3 bet there, but that is a bad turn card to get him to raise again on. I think the line you chose was one of the worst. Also, at 1/2 I would 3 bet preflop but its not that big of a deal.

-DeathDonkey

[ArturiusX]

You've started about 30 threads, and you still get the basics wrong.

3-betting preflop is a no brainer. You should know that, even people who play poker maybe once a week know that.

On the flop, UTG raised you probably with a pair of kings, AK, KQ, KJ, and you might be unlucky to come up with KK. But thats irrelovent, you need to 3-bet this flop:

1) You're ahead most of the time, so get money in while you're the favourite

2) UTG probably isn't going to slow down, so there's no need to slowplay. Money is what we want.

Now, on the turn, checking is bad. Why? Because it allows hands like AQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif that may have missed the flop to get a free card. Weekly played mid pockets like TT also can take a free card. But perhaps the worst one is, if you bet, you'd surely get raised, giving you a chance to 3-bet AND WIN MORE MONEY. Yes, we're here to make money not make fancy plays. By check-raising, villian might decide you've got a monster with the stop and go, and call you down (which is what happened).

So here's how you could have made an extra $10 off this hand:

Cap preflop. 3-bet the flop. Bet the turn. 3-bet the turn. Bet the river.

Its simple poker.

[Maurader1]

Yeah, as I'm thinking about it now, I realize that a c/r has psychological factor of slowing down hands that I beat.

But if I am in villain's shoes, and my raise is called on the flop, and I am bet into again on the turn, I think I would go into call down mode.

If you were villain and faced a bet/call, bet, would you raise the turn?

[DeathDonkey]

Probably not, that's why you should 3 bet the flop and hope for the best. Besides, what happens in the absolute worst case and he checks behind on the turn???

-DeathDonkey

[DeathDonkey]

Not 3 betting preflop isn't that big of a deal if he can get maximum extraction later. Based on how this hand went down I don't think he can, so he should 3 bet preflop. But its not the end of the world.

-DeathDonkey

[Maurader1]

[ QUOTE ]
You've started about 30 threads, and you still get the basics wrong.


[/ QUOTE ]
knew I was going to get flamed

[ QUOTE ]

3-betting preflop is a no brainer. You should know that, even people who play poker maybe once a week know that.


[/ QUOTE ]
I think 3-betting the flop will only get one more SB out of villain, and will slow him down

[ QUOTE ]

Now, on the turn, checking is bad. Why? Because it allows hands like AQ /images/graemlins/heart.gif that may have missed the flop to get a free card. Weekly played mid pockets like TT also can take a free card.


[/ QUOTE ]
This I agree with, however I think playing HU in a smallish pot, I am leaning towards how to extract more bets rather than hand protection. Though I do see how that if I 3-bet pf, and raised on the flop, the pot would be bigger, and be in need of protection.

[ QUOTE ]

But perhaps the worst one is, if you bet, you'd surely get raised, giving you a chance to 3-bet AND WIN MORE MONEY.


[/ QUOTE ]
If I 3bet pf/flop, I would strongly doubt that villain raises a turn bet here

Then again, I'm still a losing player, so you're probably right, and I'm probably wrong...

[ArturiusX]

Take one good look at the limit your playing. Its .50/1. You don't need to get fancy, this villian will dismiss your raises as Kx junk, and you have no reason to assume otherwise.

Play it a little more abc at these limits and your winrate will improve, trust me.

[Maurader1]

Maybe I am being stubborn, but I think the chances of him checking through the turn is low..

Well, I suppose my thought was that since he raise the flop, he paired the K, and will bet the turn when checked to.

At the time I had not considered the possibility that he would auto raise the flop. If he is indeed bluffing on the flop, and I bet again on the turn, he will fold. But if I check on the turn, he might try to bluff at the pot again.

[Maurader1]

It's 1/2! &lt;indignant look&gt; (maybe that's why I'm losing, lol)

But your point is well taken, thx for taking a look and comments

[Duerig]

You really need to raise this preflop. Other than that, I like the line.

[Maurader1]

I am not understanding why everyone likes to assume that the "typical" low limit player will raise you throughout the hand w/o slowing down even after you show aggression. From my experiences playing at 1/2, there's at most two people who are manical, but most are passive - if you keep firing they will not raise. Maybe I am being the fish by giving them more credit than they deserve /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Stinkybeaver]

Bet the turn.

When he has a king he's gonna bet and your play will work just like it did. However all those times he raised the flop without a king he will check it through.

[JDErickson]

3 bet PF,

Lead the flop, call the raise.

CR the turn

Bet the river

[MrEngenic]

I usually 3-bet on the flop, call a cap and lead all the way. If he raises the turn I would 3-bet again and call down a cap.

To call the flop raise and checkraise the turn IS OK at times, especially if it seems like he hit his hand. Without the king on the flop I would 3-bet and lead the turn because overcards to the flop will usually not call a CR on the turn unimproved so you miss bets. But I usually only do this if I need to make sure that a check from me doesnt mean he can pick up the pot in future hands.

Either way is good, but 3-bet more often since it usually extracts more money and use the other play as a mix up.

[KeysrSoze]

So if villian raises after bet into on the river, are we giving any credit and calling, or assuming KQ or similar and reraising?

[cmwck]

[ QUOTE ]
So if villian raises after bet into on the river, are we giving any credit and calling, or assuming KQ or similar and reraising?

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain raises the river after we check-raised him on the turn, I think 3-betting is spewing. Just call ; there's only one hand he calls the 3-bet with and loses.

[KeysrSoze]

Ah, I was thinking about it wrong, I see. He'll call with only KKQQ, but raise you with boat or straight, makes sense.

[Maurader1]

If he doesn't have a K, I doubt he will call a turn bet UI

[Maurader1]

Yay! Someone actually likes the c/r /images/graemlins/grin.gif