Ultimate NBA Starting 5

[tbach24]

G: Wade
G: James
F: Stoudmire
F: Duncan
C: Shaq

[Dynasty]

G: Jordan
G: Magic
F: Bird
F: Erving
C: Chamberlin

[contentless]

Probably the weakest pair of elite guards defensively in the league.

Edit: Not to mention that you simply have too many big bodies. Shaq, Duncan and Stoudemire can't play all at the same time.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
G: Wade
G: James
F: Stoudmire
F: Duncan
C: Shaq

[/ QUOTE ]
i would switch nash and wade. you need a pass first guy with those guys on the court.

[Popinjay]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
G: Wade
G: James
F: Stoudmire
F: Duncan
C: Shaq

[/ QUOTE ]
i would switch nash and wade. you need a pass first guy with those guys on the court.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's two sides to the court. I agree with tbach's list except I'd switch Shaq out for Jerome James

[Phoenix1010]

AAAH you stole my thread! I was waiting to ask this until the Sports forum came out. Bah.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
G: Jordan
G: Magic
F: Bird
F: Robertson
C: Chamberlin

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
G: Wade
G: James
F: Stoudmire
F: Duncan
C: Shaq

[/ QUOTE ]
i would switch nash and wade. you need a pass first guy with those guys on the court.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're both wrong. Yes you need a pass first guy, but you can't have a defensive liability like Nash without a fastbreak oriented team, the correct point guard is a healthy Jason Kidd.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
G: Jordan
G: Magic
F: Bird
F: Erving
C: Chamberlin

[/ QUOTE ]

Wade < Jordan
LBJ = Johnson
Stoudmire < Bird
Duncan > Erving
Shaq >> Chamberlain

My team wins.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
G: Jordan
G: Magic
F: Bird
F: Erving
C: Chamberlin

[/ QUOTE ]

Wade < Jordan
LBJ = Johnson
Stoudmire < Bird
Duncan > Erving
Shaq >> Chamberlain

My team wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

Robertson > Bird

[Phoenix1010]

Your team illustrates why this is an interesting question. You can't have five scorers on the floor at the same time, you need five guys who work well together and who's strengths complement each other's.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
G: Jordan
G: Magic
F: Bird
F: Robertson
C: Chamberlin

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[/ QUOTE ]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/DynastyPoker/ngbbs405e6e69bdddc.jpg

My posts don't need fixing by you.

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
G: Jordan
G: Magic
F: Bird
F: Erving
C: Chamberlin

[/ QUOTE ]

Wade < Jordan
LBJ = Johnson
Stoudmire < Bird
Duncan > Erving
Shaq >> Chamberlain

My team wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a joke. You think the gap between Shaq and Wilt is greater than the gap between Jordan and Flash?

Not to mention that LBJ = Magic is a joke. Seriously. LBJ can't defend a lick.

[tbach24]

Haha, pwned. I was waiting for this but my bro IM'ed me and said this as his starting lineup:

Nash
Joe Johnson
Marion
Stoudmire
Shaq

Obviously, I thought this so ridiculous I needed more opinions. Also, Kidd is a liability for beating up random women in the stands, so that's why I didn't go with him. Plus Wade's defense is superior to his.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
G: Jordan
G: Magic
F: Bird
F: Erving
C: Chamberlin

[/ QUOTE ]

Wade < Jordan
LBJ = Johnson
Stoudmire < Bird
Duncan > Erving
Shaq >> Chamberlain

My team wins.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a joke. You think the gap between Shaq and Wilt is greater than the gap between Jordan and Flash?

Not to mention that LBJ = Magic is a joke. Seriously. LBJ can't defend a lick.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was tougne in cheek. I was joking because he posted legends when I left out to make it current.

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, Kidd is a liability for beating up random women in the stands, so that's why I didn't go with him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really, as a fellow Celts fan, I have this advice to give to you: stop.

[Phoenix1010]

G: Jason Kidd
G: Ray Allen
F: Lebron James
F: Ben Wallace
C: Tim Duncan

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
G: Ray Allen

[/ QUOTE ]

Why???

[Phoenix1010]

Look at your team and look at mine. Without an outside threat, teams can collapse inside and suffocate your big men, and hurt Wade's driving ability. Need someone to spread the defense, and Allen is one of the best shooters/slashers in the game.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Your team illustrates why this is an interesting question. You can't have five scorers on the floor at the same time, you need five guys who work well together and who's strengths complement each other's.

[/ QUOTE ]

LBJ can be a unselfish player. As can Duncan. As can Wade. As can Shaq. So basically you have two beasts on the block that would control the rebounding/inside game, LBJ who could set everything up, Wade who is the main guard scorer, and Duncan who is just an amazing overall player. Also, the defense on this team would be ridiculously good.

[arod4276]

Any 80s team destoys a team of todays players ,, and it wouldnt really be close...the backcourt of jordan and magic would decimate any backcourt of today...The only real hope a team of todays players would have is that the 2 greatest fprwards ever to play are playing right now in garnet, and duncan...

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Look at your team and look at mine. Without an outside threat, teams can collapse inside and suffocate your big men, and hurt Wade's driving ability. Need someone to spread the defense, and Allen is one of the best shooters/slashers in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohhh heads-up match. Sounds like fun. Hmm, I really can't counter that as you've made a great matchup. However, you'd really be relying on Allen's outside game too much and as that can be inconsistent vs. Shaq, Amare, Duncan's outside game, I think you'd be screwed. On second thoughts, take out Amare, move LBJ to forward and throw in Chauncey. He can shoot well and lead a team. Also, I won't be missing that much down low.

[Phoenix1010]

You realize you have a center/power forward playing the 3 right? Amare's fast, but he will get eaten alive by a good 2 guard/small forward. Shaq is not as strong as defense as everyone thinks either, and Duncan is not as strong an offensive rebounder as you want alongside Shaq.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
You realize you have a center/power forward playing the 3 right? Amare's fast, but he will get eaten alive by a good 2 guard/small forward. Shaq is not as strong as defense as everyone thinks either, and Duncan is not as strong an offensive rebounder as you want alongside Shaq.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hence my switch to Chauncey.

I think a fun one to play around with is this:

PG: Chauncey
SG: James
SF: Artest
PF: Kirilenko
C: Stoudmire

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
On second thoughts, take out Amare, move LBJ to forward and throw in Chauncey. He can shoot well and lead a team. Also, I won't be missing that much down low.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok at least you took out Amare, but now you've got two point guards. Neither Chauncey nor Wade are as effective as off guards as they are playing point.

[arod4276]

TBACH you realize only one player on your team is considered an above avergae defesive payer at this stage of there career.. duncan ..wade and lbj are average at best while amare,,and shaq dont play much d at all.. A team of magic, bird,, MJ, malone, and the dream destroy them.. LITERALLY..arod4276

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]

PG: Chauncey
SG: James
SF: Artest
PF: Kirilenko
C: Stoudmire

[/ QUOTE ]

This one would never work. You can't play Amare at center unless you're going to utilize his speed with an uptempo game. Half court sets are going to expose him as a liability on offense and defense; the defensive part hurts especially because the rest of your players are defensive minded. Chauncey is not nearly as good as some other PGs you could pick. Kidd, Bibby, and Wade are by far the best choices.

[Popinjay]

you do know that Tim Duncan was voted first team all-defensive for the 6th straight year?

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
TBACH you realize only one player on your team is considered an above avergae defesive payer at this stage of there career.. duncan ..wade and lbj are average at best while amare,,and shaq dont play much d at all.. A team of magic, bird,, MJ, malone, and the dream destroy them.. LITERALLY..arod4276

[/ QUOTE ]

Literally? Are they playing basketball or fighting to the death?

And MJ, Malone, and Hakeem are primarily known as 90's players, you can't pick an all-time greatest team here.

[tbach24]

I changed my team:


PG: Chauncey
SG: James
SF: Artest
PF: Kirilenko
C: Stoudmire/Duncan

I can't believe I left off Kirilenko and Artest in my original. They are two fantastic defenders and if you put some great offensive players around them, with a great PG, this team would crush any current team.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

PG: Chauncey
SG: James
SF: Artest
PF: Kirilenko
C: Stoudmire

[/ QUOTE ]

This one would never work. You can't play Amare at center unless you're going to utilize his speed with an uptempo game. Half court sets are going to expose him as a liability on offense and defense; the defensive part hurts especially because the rest of your players are defensive minded. Chauncey is not nearly as good as some other PGs you could pick. Kidd, Bibby, and Wade are by far the best choices.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my latest post (after this one) I have Stoudmire/Duncan. Duncan would probably be a better option. I don't think Kidd would be as good an option as he's too uptempo for that squad. Put Wade in for Chauncey.

[andyfox]

Especially when he has a guard playing forward.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
I changed my team:


PG: Chauncey
SG: James
SF: Artest
PF: Kirilenko
C: Stoudmire/Duncan

I can't believe I left off Kirilenko and Artest in my original. They are two fantastic defenders and if you put some great offensive players around them, with a great PG, this team would crush any current team.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kirlenko won't be nearly as effective defensively if he plays 4 rather than 3. He will get housed by strong forwards, whereas Ben Wallace, defensive player of the year, will not. Good call on Artest though.

Again Kidd > Wade > Bibby > Chauncey

And if you want a scoring machine shooting guard to carry your team offensively as it appears you want for James: Iverson > Kobe > McGrady > Lebron

Also, like I said, having Amare at center negates the rest of your defense. Duncan would be fine.

[WEASEL45]

G: Kobe
G: Wade
F: LBJ
F: Garnett
C; Duncan

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I changed my team:


PG: Chauncey
SG: James
SF: Artest
PF: Kirilenko
C: Stoudmire/Duncan

I can't believe I left off Kirilenko and Artest in my original. They are two fantastic defenders and if you put some great offensive players around them, with a great PG, this team would crush any current team.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kirlenko won't be nearly as effective defensively if he plays 4 rather than 3. He will get housed by strong forwards, whereas Ben Wallace, defensive player of the year, will not. Good call on Artest though.

Again Kidd > Wade > Bibby > Chauncey

And if you want a scoring machine shooting guard to carry your team offensively as it appears you want for James: Iverson > Kobe > McGrady > Lebron

Also, like I said, having Amare at center negates the rest of your defense. Duncan would be fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

For my lineup, I don't think Kidd would do well. Same as Nash, he plays too uptempo. In my latest post I threw in Wade over Kidd. LBJ is very unselfish. I really think he'd play better on this roster. Kirilenko vs. Wallace is a odd thing. I really think you underestimate Kirilenko if you say Wallace in a walk. But yeah, Wallace would be better. So here's the new lineup:

PG: Wade
SG: LBJ
SF: Artest
PF: Wallace
C: Duncan

I really don't think you could put in AI as he's really a one man team.

[Phoenix1010]

I'll offer an alternate team:

G: Mike Bibby
G: Kobe Bryant
F: Ron Artest
F: Jermaine O'Neal
C: Shaquille O'Neal

[istewart]

Stoudemire does not belong on this team.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll offer an alternate team:

G: Mike Bibby
G: Kobe Bryant
F: Ron Artest
F: Jermaine O'Neal
C: Shaquille O'Neal

[/ QUOTE ]

Is Bibby really that strong defensively? J O'Neal is just a lesser form of Duncan.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
LBJ is very unselfish.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the problem. Being unselfish is great, but you don't have any designated scorer on your team. Sure it will be a great team, but not as great as it could be if you had a high scoring go-to guy who can shoot the ball. LBJ would do fine, although his mediocre outside shot would be a problem, but he's not as good and experienced as some of the strong superstar guards in the league who can create shots for themselves better than he can.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll offer an alternate team:

G: Mike Bibby
G: Kobe Bryant
F: Ron Artest
F: Jermaine O'Neal
C: Shaquille O'Neal

[/ QUOTE ]

Is Bibby really that strong defensively? J O'Neal is just a lesser form of Duncan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bibby wouldn't need to be very strong defensively because of the strong interior defense. I picked him for his shooting/passing ability, and the fact that he's a more servicable defender than Nash.

JO is more athletic than Duncan. He fits the mold of all of the power forwards who have benefitted from Shaq's presence by playing off him. Garnett would be a much better fit though.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LBJ is very unselfish.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the problem. Being unselfish is great, but you don't have any designated scorer on your team. Sure it will be a great team, but not as great as it could be if you had a high scoring go-to guy who can shoot the ball. LBJ would do fine, although his mediocre outside shot would be a problem, but he's not as good and experienced as some of the strong superstar guards in the league who can create shots for themselves better than he can.

[/ QUOTE ]

Valid points. I think with Wade though and such a strong forward crew, having one go-to-guy would hurt you. Look at Pierce on the Celtics. A lot of times he would just take it upon himself to take the game over, and that hurt us. He's no Kobe/TMac, but it's the same point. I think the balance of that roster, plus Wade and LBJ's ability to "takeover" a game when necessary, is what really counts.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
G: Kobe
G: Wade
F: LBJ
F: Garnett
C; Duncan

[/ QUOTE ]

Same problem here. Three guards who demand the ball (they can all be unselfish, but they do not play terribly well without the ball) and none of them can shoot worth a damn. Probably the perfect, if not most creative, front court though.

[tbach24]

In 10 years, here's what it will be:

PG: Wade
SG: Gordon
SF: James
PF: Jefferson
C: Chandler

That team is already so good, I am SO pumped to see how good AJ is next year.

[Phoenix1010]

Tyson Chandler will never be the premier center in the leauge. Give me Chris Bosh. There will also be some younger players in there that we haven't heard of yet.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Tyson Chandler will never be the premier center in the leauge. Give me Chris Bosh. There will also be some younger players in there that we haven't heard of yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chandler is an absolute BEAST on the block. Bosh seems a bit soft for me. Obviously there will be younger, better players, but I don't know them yet. It's also difficult to imagine players as good as these 5, but I guess that's what they said about Bird/Johnson until MJ.

Edit- how did we forget Okafor? He's clearly the C

[Phoenix1010]

I think I have the correct answer:

G: Jason Kidd
G: Kobe Bryant
F: Dirk Nowitzki
F: Ben Wallace
C: Shaquille O'Neal

At this stage in the game, I think this team would beat any other grouping of players in the NBA.

Edit:
[ QUOTE ]
Edit- how did we forget Okafor? He's clearly the C

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely correct. Slipped my mind.

[mmbt0ne]

Josh Smith
Andrew Bogut
Josh Childress
Boris Diaw
Tyronn Lue

Oh sorry, thats the hawks starting lineup next year. I think I just threw up.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
Josh Smith
Andrew Bogut
Josh Childress
Boris Diaw
Tyronn Lue

Oh sorry, thats the hawks starting lineup next year. I think I just threw up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Give it five years. Maybe less, look what happened to the Bulls this year. Tyronn and Boris are losers though.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
In 10 years, here's what it will be:

[/ QUOTE ]

PG: Wade
SG: James
SF: Marvin Williams
PF: Okafor
C: Bosh

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
G: Jason Kidd
G: Kobe Bryant
F: Dirk Nowitzki
F: Ben Wallace
C: Shaquille O'Neal

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the best possible counter to this:

PG: Wade
SG: Artest
SF: Kirilenko
PF: Duncan
C: Shaq

If you can't have the same player playing twice, move Duncan to center and have Garnett playing PF. I really am hoping for a Suns/Pistons finals, I would love to see Amare vs. Wallace.

[mmbt0ne]

We CAN'T draft Bogut. Please God don't let us get the number 1 pick. I want Marvin Williams, Deron Williams, Raymond Felton, and Sean May (I think in that order). Only those 4. No wasting picks on overhyped Australians.

[Phoenix1010]

I think D. Howard might have something to say about this. There's no telling where he'll end up. Amare will still be around and going strong in ten years as well.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In 10 years, here's what it will be:

[/ QUOTE ]

PG: Wade
SG: James
SF: Marvin Williams
PF: Okafor
C: Bosh

[/ QUOTE ]

James/M. Williams vs. Gordon/James I would give it to the latter, but it's too soon to tell. I would much rather have Jefferson/Okafor over Okafor/Bosh as well.

[mmbt0ne]

Yeah, I completely forgot Amare. Drop Okafor for him. I'm not getting rid of Bosh.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
We CAN'T draft Bogut. Please God don't let us get the number 1 pick. I want Marvin Williams, Deron Williams, Raymond Felton, and Sean May (I think in that order). Only those 4. No wasting picks on overhyped Australians.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good order. I'd switch Felton and Deron Williams though. Who knows how Bogut is going to end up. I predict the next Christian Laettner.

[Rick Diesel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
G: Wade
G: James
F: Stoudmire
F: Duncan
C: Shaq

[/ QUOTE ]
i would switch nash and wade. you need a pass first guy with those guys on the court.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nash shouldn't be on the 4th team, let alone the first.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I completely forgot Amare. Drop Okafor for him. I'm not getting rid of Bosh.

[/ QUOTE ]

NOOOO. This means AJ can't be on my lineup /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Throw in Amare at PF and Okafor at C. Or other way around, doesn't matter.

MM: Did you go to GT or something?

[tbach24]

What do you think of Arujo? Wow, I butchered the spelling I think. He was a beast in the tourney a couple years back but he has been quiet in the NBA. I had really high hopes for him because in college he looked like a bull and has nice footwork.

[mmbt0ne]

That has NOTHING to do with Bosh being a beast.

However, it probably made me almost put Jack in the top 5 at PG.

[Rick Diesel]

This is ridiculous. I read through almost every reply to this thread, and did not see the best player in the NBA on any ones list.

The answer is clearly:
G: ALLEN IVERSON
G: Dwayne Wade
F: LeBron James
F: Tim Duncan
C: Shaq

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
This is ridiculous. I read through almost every reply to this thread, and did not see the best player in the NBA on any ones list.

The answer is clearly:
G: ALLEN IVERSON
G: Dwayne Wade
F: LeBron James
F: Tim Duncan
C: Shaq

[/ QUOTE ]

Iverson is hard to place because he doesn't fit very well in a team setting. That's why the Sixers have had so much trouble building a team around him. He's also short, so he's a liability on defense playing anything but PG. If you're going to match him with Wade, you'll be taking Wade out of his most comfortable position to play the 2. Lebron doesn't play as well off the ball as some other players you could choose at the 3 as well, and Iverson will be dominating the ball.

[mmbt0ne]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
This is ridiculous. I read through almost every reply to this thread, and did not see the best player in the NBA on any ones list.

The answer is clearly:
G: ALLEN IVERSON
G: Dwayne Wade
F: LeBron James
F: Tim Duncan
C: Shaq

[/ QUOTE ]

I /images/graemlins/heart.gif you

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We CAN'T draft Bogut. Please God don't let us get the number 1 pick. I want Marvin Williams, Deron Williams, Raymond Felton, and Sean May (I think in that order). Only those 4. No wasting picks on overhyped Australians.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who knows how Bogut is going to end up. I predict the next Christian Laettner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are way off the mark here.

[Subfallen]

My only comment is that the correct backcourt, whatever it is, must include Kobe Bryant.

[The Yugoslavian]

FWIW:
Ray Allen
Michael Redd
Lebron James
KG
Duncan

Frankly, I don't think Shaq is mobile enough at this stage in his career for the rest of this team. This team is extremely atheltic and every star is unselfish enough to play together.

Yugoslav

[Dubra]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is ridiculous. I read through almost every reply to this thread, and did not see the best player in the NBA on any ones list.

The answer is clearly:
G: ALLEN IVERSON
G: Dwayne Wade
F: LeBron James
F: Tim Duncan
C: Shaq

[/ QUOTE ]

Iverson is hard to place because he doesn't fit very well in a team setting. That's why the Sixers have had so much trouble building a team around him. He's also short, so he's a liability on defense playing anything but PG. If you're going to match him with Wade, you'll be taking Wade out of his most comfortable position to play the 2. Lebron doesn't play as well off the ball as some other players you could choose at the 3 as well, and Iverson will be dominating the ball.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you are definitely wrong here. if you have watched the games that AI has played with players of this caliber, he becomes a pass-first point guard. he has two allstar game mvps because of this, and performed well at the olympics. you would be better off with AI at the 1 rather than wade because AI is a better passer and at least equal when it comes to defending the opponents PG. Don't even bring J Kidd into this equation. he has no jump shot and is a liability defensively.

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
My only comment is that the correct backcourt, whatever it is, must include Kobe Bryant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if you plan on using said backcourt to rape and terrorize teenagers.

I keed, I keed.

I'm not a huge NBA fan right now, but here's what I think.

Center is clearly Shaq.

In the three littler guys, you need at least one if not two legit 3-point shooters. You need a great passer and a great slasher.

In the 4, you want a beastly defender who doesn't mind staying out of Shaq's way. I think Wallace fits the bill, though I hate to leave off Garnett or Duncan.

The tricky part is the other 3 guys. Those people who say LeBron can't move without the ball or create for himself, I think you're making a mistake. He can create off the dribble and will be able to do so even more with other guys that can finish when you double onto him. And he is great at dumping off to said guys. As far as moving without the ball, James is a very mature player for being what, 20? I think he can learn. It's hard to say what he would do with 4 other great players around him, my inclination is to say he has too much potential not to find a way to excel.

Ron Artest is my second choice for the 3 spot.

An interesting dark horse for the 2 might be Ginobili. Very creative player and he shoots from outside well. Then you get Kidd or Wade for the 1 and you're looking tough.

NT

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW:
Ray Allen
Michael Redd
Lebron James
KG
Duncan

Frankly, I don't think Shaq is mobile enough at this stage in his career for the rest of this team. This team is extremely atheltic and every star is unselfish enough to play together.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

Michael Redd is a poor man's Ray Allen, and if you want a poor man's Ray Allen, I would think you of all people should know that Peja Stojakovic is the best out there /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

You also don't have a true point guard (Lebron's stint as PG was mostly unsuccessful) which tends to hurt the offensive flow of the game, and will make it that much more difficult for your shooters to get good looks and fast break opportunities.

Your perimiter defense will be much shoddier than it could be as well. Can't argue with the front court, and I agree with the statement about Shaq.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

Michael Redd is a poor man's Ray Allen


[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't say poor man...I'd just say a lefty Ray Allen, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

[ QUOTE ]

and if you want a poor man's Ray Allen, I would think you of all people should know that Peja Stojakovic is the best out there /images/graemlins/tongue.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Have you seen Peja handle a ball lately?!? I mean, as much as I love the guy....I can't have him out there without a true pg. Also, he can't play the 2 spot (if I wanted to sub him for redd)....and he doesn't D up well anyway vs. his natural 3 position (Redd isn't amazing defensively but better than Peja).

[ QUOTE ]

You also don't have a true point guard (Lebron's stint as PG was mostly unsuccessful)


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes....but the only true PGs in the league have drawbacks. So I thought, f*ck it, and go without one....

[ QUOTE ]

which tends to hurt the offensive flow of the game, and will make it that much more difficult for your shooters to get good looks and fast break opportunities.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is where the front court comes in. Redd and Allen don't need a pg to get them looks....that's why there's no Benny Wallace on my team /images/graemlins/tongue.gif ....talk about asking for offensive flow-stopper...yuck!

[ QUOTE ]

Your perimiter defense will be much shoddier than it could be as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

Howso? Most of the 'good' to 'very good' perimeter players are the ones who have good interior D anyway and are willing to gamble. There really are only a few stand out man to man defenders anyway and most of them really play the 3 spot. If Artest wasn't completely insane I'd think about putting him at 3, btw.

[ QUOTE ]

Can't argue with the front court, and I agree with the statement about Shaq.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason this 5 works so well *is* the front court. Lebron would be an amazing 3 to swing the ball from side to side as well. I just see this team crushing in any format of basketball (international or domestic).

Yugoslav

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't say poor man...I'd just say a lefty Ray Allen, .

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is what I was saying. Their strengths don't complement each other, they're just carbon copies of each other (Redd is actually not nearly as good a slasher and penetrator as Allen). In a half court set, perimeter 2 guards generally need someone handling the ball and running the offense to set them up, and neither of them excel at that. Neither of them are any good at pushing the ball and running the break either, so a lot of the athleticism of your backcourt is going to waste. If you want two shooters, Steve Nash can do anything that Redd can (with a slight drop off in defense) and a whole lot more.

[ QUOTE ]

This is where the front court comes in. Redd and Allen don't need a pg to get them looks....that's why there's no Benny Wallace on my team ....talk about asking for offensive flow-stopper...yuck!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well It seems like you're modeling this team after the strong Kings teams of the past few years (5 good passers for offensive flow), which isn't a bad thing. However, when it comes to passing and chemistry, KG and Duncan, while great, are not on par with Webber and Divac. The Kings also had Mike Bibby, one of the 5 best point guards in the league, running the show. I just don't think you can have a great offensive flow without a good ballhandler/passer. We can agree to disagree on that.

[ QUOTE ]

Howso? Most of the 'good' to 'very good' perimeter players are the ones who have good interior D anyway and are willing to gamble. There really are only a few stand out man to man defenders anyway and most of them really play the 3 spot. If Artest wasn't completely insane I'd think about putting him at 3, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ron Artest and Kobe Bryant are probably the two best man to man defensive guards in the league, and (obviously) lose nothing on offense. Artest's anger problems aside, he deserves that spot. Redd and Allen can't keep anyone in front of them, and Lebron isn't a great help defender, your defense will get broken down for open jump shots and offensive rebounds.

[ QUOTE ]

The reason this 5 works so well *is* the front court. Lebron would be an amazing 3 to swing the ball from side to side as well. I just see this team crushing in any format of basketball (international or domestic).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're giving too much credit to Duncan and KG's passing abilities. They don't run the offense, their backcourt runs it through them. You need a good thinking, good penetrating, good passing guard to make that happen. I think Lebron is close to the ultimate swingman so his placement is pretty good. FWIW, I think your team is near ideal for international play, but you NEED Dirk Nowitzki for an ultimate international team.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]

i think you are definitely wrong here. if you have watched the games that AI has played with players of this caliber, he becomes a pass-first point guard. he has two allstar game mvps because of this, and performed well at the olympics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me you're not using the allstar game as a basis for how he would play competetively in this environment. And he performed fairly crappily in the Olympics, like everyone else. Iverson's biggest strength has always been scoring through volume shooting (he has one of the worst FG% in the league), not through running the offense and picking his spots. He has learned to pass well while he's shooting often, but he's still dominating the ball for most of the game, which makes it hard to pair him up with other superstars who need to have the ball in their hands to flourish. I'm sure he would be very good at playing as a pure point guard, but it wouldn't be playing to his strengths, and there are others who can do it better.

[ QUOTE ]
you would be better off with AI at the 1 rather than wade because AI is a better passer and at least equal when it comes to defending the opponents PG

[/ QUOTE ]

You can argue for a long time about who is the better defender between them. I think you make a compelling case for AI as possible PG over Dwyane Wade, my statement was only meant to say that you shouldn't have them both together because neither shouldn't play the 2. I'd still take Wade, because of his much greater FG% and because he's shown that he's capable of picking his spots while keeping the ball moving. Iverson is the better player (I think he's the best player in the league), but he doesn't fit as well into a great team.

[ QUOTE ]
Don't even bring J Kidd into this equation. he has no jump shot and is a liability defensively.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you out of your mind? Where do you people come up with this stuff? Sure his jumpshot is nothing to write home about (although it did improve this year), but a "liability defensively?!" The man is widely recognized as the best defensive point guard in the league by a wide margin, hell he made NBA all defensive second team this year despite being injured for a good chunk of it and rusty when he first got back. This statement is just ridiculous. It also ignores the fact that he's the best passer, best rebounder, best penetrator, best fast break pusher, best leader and out and out best all around point guard in the whole damn league.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

but you NEED Dirk Nowitzki for an ultimate international team.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes....you're probably right /images/graemlins/frown.gif. I guess I'd trade Duncan for him...

Thanks for breakin' down my team. I still think not having a passing pg is fine here. Also, Divac and Webber may be better pure passers than KG and Duncan but I don't think they are as effective b/c they don't command the same attention and can't do as much when they have the ball.

I think the whole team could be used to bring the ball upcourt....as far as passing it into the big men, I really think Lebron would match a pg in this role. The reason his sting didn't work is b/c his team is crap....he didn't have the right guys to set up. They realized they had to set up him instead b/c he was infinitely more potent than the rest of their offensive threats put together.

I think Bibby became overrated once he had that ice in his veins post season. The only reason he's a top 5 pg is b/c there are no good pgs anymore!! He's like the best of the good ones....if I went with a real pg I'd have to go with Kidd I guess. Wade can't shoot the 3, Nash can't guard my sister, and most everyone else is just a 2 guard who can pass (not set up or run an offense) - Allen could do this just fine if/when needed.

The reason I don't really want Kidd (besides the fact he beats women, /images/graemlins/wink.gif or that he's from my hometown and I don't want to seem to 'play favorites') is that he isn't a good field goal shooter and I think his most recent injury doesn't bode well for the way he plays (yes, he's still very good).

[ QUOTE ]

Well It seems like you're modeling this team after the strong Kings teams of the past few years


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, and so there's no confusion here....my team would actually be capable of playing defense, /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

Yugoslav

[bugstud]

I think that if you had a frontcourt of kirilenko, garnett and shaq that the guards almost don't matter.

[thatpfunk]

I think this does get interesting when you try to figure out the team of best players that would play the best together...

C: Shaq
F: Duncan
I think these two are pretty much set in stone. One could argue for Garnett over Duncan- it is close.

The guard play is what realy interests me... There is no way Kobe gets on this team. I hope he gets hit by a truck.

PG: I don't think Nash is an option because he is SO bad defensively. I think it comes down to Wade vs a healthy Kidd and DW is just playing too good to not pick.


SG: I think this is an interesting choice because this might be the one position where you would forego the "best" player, and instead get a pure shooter. They will get tons of open looks and will not have to create off the dribble. It would help if they were strong defensively as well. I'm honestly not sure the best candidate for the job, Ray Allen I guess(how strong is he defensively)? Anyone got a better shooter/defender? I think AI would be a really fun person to throw in this role.

SF: Lebron, I guess. I can't really think of a better option at the moment.

For those harping on Lebron and Wade's defensive skills- do you realize how much help they would be getting with both Shaq and TD available down low? Plus, if someone figures out a better SG option, you can throw them on the scorer/hot player on the other team.

[rwesty]

PG - Iverson
SG - McGrady
SF - James
PF - Garnett
C - Shaq

Bench - Duncan, Allen, (healthy) Kidd

[Bulldog]

[ QUOTE ]
This is ridiculous. I read through almost every reply to this thread, and did not see the best player in the NBA on any ones list.

The answer is clearly:
G: ALLEN IVERSON
G: Dwayne Wade
F: LeBron James
F: Tim Duncan
C: Shaq

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct.

AI has always shown the willingness to be a pass-first guy when the situation called for it (all-star games, the olympics, game 7 vs the raptors in 2001 as prime examples). When he has had guys that can score (end of this past season is another good example) he has always been willing to give the ball up. He attracts much more of the defense's attention to stop his own scoring ability than a Steve Nash does, making it so much easier for his teammates to score.

[lil_o]

pg: oscar robertson or magic johnson
sg: michael jordan
sf: elgin baylor or larry bird
pf: bill russell
c: kareem abdul jabbar or wilt chamberlain

[lil_o]

ur kidding right...

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Not to mention that you simply have too many big bodies. Shaq, Duncan and Stoudemire can't play all at the same time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, dominant post prescence, rebounding and shot blocking is all over-rated /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[lil_o]

active starting 5

pg: jason kidd (when healthy and not hitting his wife)
sg: dwyane wade or allen iverson
sf: lebron or shawn marion (sleeper pick)
pf: duncan
c: shaq

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
ur kidding right...

[/ QUOTE ]

Kidding about what?

[samjjones]

PG: Wade
SG: McGrady
SF: James
PF: Duncan
C: Shaq

[Phoenix1010]

Why McGrady over Kobe?

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]

AI has always shown the willingness to be a pass-first guy when the situation called for it (all-star games, the olympics, game 7 vs the raptors in 2001 as prime examples). When he has had guys that can score (end of this past season is another good example) he has always been willing to give the ball up. He attracts much more of the defense's attention to stop his own scoring ability than a Steve Nash does, making it so much easier for his teammates to score.

[/ QUOTE ]

See my response to Dubra above. He's only drawing attention if he's hoisting shots, if he's hoisting shots, he's not running the offense. The rest of the team is not a bunch of role players waiting for AI to stop dominating the offense, they are superstars themselves who need a point guard to run the offense to them. There are simply players who play the point guard spot better than AI does, regardless of his ability to score. Tall quick defenders like Kobe Bryant have always been able to shut him down as well.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
active starting 5

pg: jason kidd (when healthy and not hitting his wife)
sg: dwyane wade or allen iverson
sf: lebron or shawn marion (sleeper pick)
pf: duncan
c: shaq

[/ QUOTE ]

Your back court is going to create defensive mismatches because they're so short, if you have Wade and Kidd that won't be a huge problem because they're both great defenders, but it's still suboptimal. If you have Lebron, Kidd, and Wade, you're going to have three guys who are at their best with the ball in their hands, not playing off of someone else, so you're not as good as you could be. Also, any team with a strong inside game and no reliable perimeter shooters is not as good as it could be (Marion doesn't quite cut it, but close).

[KingDan]

PG A healthy Kidd, atm Wade
SG Kobe
SF Garnett
PF Duncan
C Shaq

[college_boy]

G-Wade
G lebron
F KG
F Ben Wallace
C Shaq

Defense wins championships.

[bugstud]

I'd rather have kirilenko over wallace