Lvl 1-3 Slowplay AA, KK PF Ever?

[Degen]

I can't remember the last time I didn't make a huge raise PF w/ AA or KK, unless I was UTG and doing a call-reraise...

Discuss.


Andre

[DasLeben]

I don't know about the $55s, but at the lower buyins I generally get enough action when I raise aces or kings preflop to where they don't need to be slowplayed.

[Degen]

ya ditto

but my thinking was this may be too predictable

in HOH action dan says to do it 80% of the time, and 20% at random, slow play.

At the 55's and higher you see a lot of the same peeps.


Andre

[OrcaDK]

At the $10/20's i usually just call with my aces and take their stack on a TPTK/overpair flop. Of course sometimes it goes wrong, but this has been working out perfect for me. With kings i always try to get my chips in the middle preflop.

[Maulik]

stop hijacking my idea, punk

[jgunnip]

[ QUOTE ]
ya ditto

but my thinking was this may be too predictable

in HOH action dan says to do it 80% of the time, and 20% at random, slow play.

At the 55's and higher you see a lot of the same peeps.


Andre

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually just read this section earlier today and I was thinking the same thing. I don't play above the 20+2 right now and I usually don't run into enough of the same players to the point I think its a problem so I just always raise with high pairs. The bottom line is imo, if you don't see the same oppoenents very often and/or they aren't bright enough to see such betting patterns then it's rarely correct, at a full table, to slowplay the higher pairs.

[hyde]

my tombstone will read:
He loved to slow play
He just hated the results

and I do love it. something feels os good when it works. I certainly don't do it all the time. I will limp in early position with AA and hope for a re raise. though a table full of limpers is then painful....
and you have to love a min raise on the button in front of a BB who chooses to protect his blind with an all in....love those guys.

KK.....not going to let any Ace limp in, and I want an AQ to think about it. At least three times BB, or more.

[shejk]

Lvl3 is often very well suited for slowplaying big pairs preflop imo. The stacksizes are about right.

[Benfica]

I can't remember the number of times I busted out when I slowplayed AA pre-flop, then went all-in on a rainbow rag flop...damn pocket 2's and 3's!!

[zaphod]

I did a few limps from UTG level 1 some time ago. I think this can be a decent play, as long as you know to slow down when it does not go according to plan(they forget to raise behind you). I.e when 5 players limps behind you, i will not risk my hole stack, when SB comes out betting on the flop, BB raises...
Lately i have just been raising, since i think i get enough action with these big hands anyway at the 30$ tournament which are my home these days.

[1C5]

Harrington means mix it up when you are playing the same players, if you only play the same players once in a while you don't have to do that 80/20 rule.

[Jimbobobb]

At 10's and 20's and probably 30's I simply see no point to not raise pf. A raise of 3-4BB's will get you 2 callers at least on average. And sooooo many people are ridiculously aggresive with mid pairs early on that a lot of times someone will make a silly raise to 300 or so with 9's and you get that warm fuzzy feeling and move the slide bar all the way to the right. Maybe at higher levels where opponents have more than 3 neurons firing, but at the low levels I rarely don't get action with my big pairs. Straightforward play works great at these levels, so I see no need to try and be fancy.

[Degen]

and hence, it is correct to always juice the big pairs pre?


Andre

[Degen]

i can't count the number of times this has happened when i've made it 95 to go UTG in level 1...damn pocket 2's and 3's

(seriously)


Andre

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
At 10's and 20's and probably 30's I simply see no point to not raise pf. A raise of 3-4BB's will get you 2 callers at least on average. And sooooo many people are ridiculously aggresive with mid pairs early on that a lot of times someone will make a silly raise to 300 or so with 9's and you get that warm fuzzy feeling and move the slide bar all the way to the right. Maybe at higher levels where opponents have more than 3 neurons firing, but at the low levels I rarely don't get action with my big pairs. Straightforward play works great at these levels, so I see no need to try and be fancy.


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif


This post made me laugh my arse off.


Andre

[LeVoodoo]

[ QUOTE ]
in HOH action dan says to do it 80% of the time, and 20% at random

[/ QUOTE ]

Something like this..
80% bet big
10% limp
10% fold

Gotta shake things up every once in a while.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in HOH action dan says to do it 80% of the time, and 20% at random

[/ QUOTE ]

Something like this..
80% bet big
10% limp
10% fold

Gotta shake things up every once in a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

haha FOLD, yeah right!
& I'm superman

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Harrington means mix it up when you are playing the same players, if you only play the same players once in a while you don't have to do that 80/20 rule.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

[The Yugoslavian]

I don't treat levels 1-3 the same way...at all.

At level 3 I'd be much more likely to attempt some sort of 'slowplay.'

At level 1 and generally 2 I think you gotta let callers call your preflop raise.

Yugoslav

[beeyjay]

at the 55s you can play these the same way everytime with a raise and do fine. you don't really see the same people all that much. the people you do see that much fold everything whether you limp or raise

[NYCNative]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't remember the last time I didn't make a huge raise PF w/ AA or KK, unless I was UTG and doing a call-reraise...

Discuss.

[/ QUOTE ]I love the limp-big reraise UTG move with Kings or Aces. I don't always do it but I will do it when I am at a table that is playing with raised pots pre-flop 60+% of the time.

Whenever I try and get cute with Aces (and slow-playing is the definition of cute) I lose a ton. That isn't to say that you can't sometimes get cute, but I've found that at lower levels you can't afford to because too many people are too loose and someone can hit something.

You can afford to get cute more if you are the type who doesn't get married to big pairs and are a genius post-flop. 95% of players do not qualify (myself included).

[Big Limpin']

Right then. Aside from limp/rr EP, which you have acknowledged, im gonna go upstairs most of the time, just like anyone else.

But what is the situation where im gonna slowplay? Its when im button (maybe CO), and MP guy has made a standard raise....erm, well, that is, a bet size that is enough in and of itself to drop the blinds w/o hands, but not large enough to have Mp committed to calling my push over the top.

My rationale here is that he has likely 2 broadway or a midPP...and more value can be extracted with allowing him to see the flop with me (and only me), and he is acting first

My thinking that this is the most probable way to induce him to f*ck up. i.e. he has KQ flop Q46, he pushes casue he wants to defend his "best made hand".

What this hinges on is you extracting $ from him that you wouldnt by popping preflop.

So, for me, i'll do it if the conditions are right, that is his p/f raise is likely to drop the blinds, but yet stacks-bet ratio isnt enough to have him committed to calling my p/f rasie..

Dig? I'm not sure ive explained what im thinking very well, its late. I'll clarify tomorrow, if it seems clearer.

[Big Limpin']

Oh, and slowplaying big PP in unraised pots preflop is complete shortbus. Its like playing backcatcher without a cup......You're gonna catch most of the pitches fine, but a foul tip (read: disaster flop) is gonna happen sooner or later, and yer nutz are gonna hurt after that happens.

[flo]

He really says fold AA or KK 10% of the time? Wow, now that must leave the opponents confused /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[david050173]

[ QUOTE ]
Right then. Aside from limp/rr EP, which you have acknowledged, im gonna go upstairs most of the time, just like anyone else.

But what is the situation where im gonna slowplay? Its when im button (maybe CO), and MP guy has made a standard raise....erm, well, that is, a bet size that is enough in and of itself to drop the blinds w/o hands, but not large enough to have Mp committed to calling my push over the top.

My rationale here is that he has likely 2 broadway or a midPP...and more value can be extracted with allowing him to see the flop with me (and only me), and he is acting first

My thinking that this is the most probable way to induce him to f*ck up. i.e. he has KQ flop Q46, he pushes casue he wants to defend his "best made hand".

What this hinges on is you extracting $ from him that you wouldnt by popping preflop.

So, for me, i'll do it if the conditions are right, that is his p/f raise is likely to drop the blinds, but yet stacks-bet ratio isnt enough to have him committed to calling my p/f rasie..

Dig? I'm not sure ive explained what im thinking very well, its late. I'll clarify tomorrow, if it seems clearer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can use the same logic in reverse: he has pocket 77 would fold to a reraise,hits trips on the flop and busts you. If you reraise preflop, he folds and you are still playing. If he is holding AK, and I knew the flop was coming AK2, I would slow play it every time. Without that knowledge you have to decide is he more likely to put money in preflop (a lot of people can't fold AK or JJ preflop) or post flop. What the right play is depends on the player, your position, the stack sizes, and where you are in the game.