getting started in NL

[MrTeddyKGB]

I have been running good in 10/20 6 max for the last month and am now trying to learn NL. I am starting in the 50 NL and have set aside 40 buy ins that I can afford to lose. I have played over 300k hands mult-tableing limit almost none of them at NL. I posted a similar post in the small stakes forum to get a basic understanding. I am not concerned with my win rate as much as developing an aggrisive winning style. learning to figure pot and implyed odds ect. There seems to be less good theory on NL. I have a few general questions about NL. My goal is to develop an agg. style similar to what doyle describes in SS. I understand the most of the important decisions are post flop in NL but want to judge what is resonable pre-flop. When is NL poker for the advanced player coming out?

1. I played the most of my limit hands in 5-10 and 10-20 six max. Would it be better to learn NL on the short handed tables or full tables?

2. what is the range of hands in terms of vip and pfr that is considerd reasonable. To pinpont it more at what numbers would you say someone is slightly loose agg. I want to try to see where the line is.

3. I consider blind steal and defence very important in limit. How impotant are these in NL (as you move up) more important, less important or just as important.

4. Any threads or links to any NL info that helped anyone with anything would be great. Is there a best NL post thread any where?

[NickDollar]

1. Seeing as you come from shorthanded limit and like defending your blinds, I would recommend starting in shorthanded NL. However, you do get put into many more marginal situations that, if played wrong, can cost you your stack instead of a few bets. So tread carefully until you get a feel for things.

2. In NL poker the stats themselves don't matter. I have people in my database who are winners with 16-5, 42-3, and 44-25. There is much more freedom in styles and overall approaches to the game. For a "standard", tight-aggressive approach, numbers around 17-23 VPIP and maybe 5-8 PFR are good? Not sure here, I'm not too long of a PT user, but that seems about accurate. A quote that's stuck with me for a while I got from here is "NL is not so much about profitable hands as finding profitable situations." I think it was ML4L, but not sure.

3. I am a long-time primarily full-table player, though recently I have been playing more short. In full table games, blind defence is of utmost unimportance. The positional disadvantage is magnified in NL and playing dominated hands or any other crap postflop will be way more costly. Also, preflop raises do not offer you 7-1 or whatever from the blinds anymore, it is rarely better than 3-1. And postflop instead of one small bet it's a pot-sized bet. It's just not worth it at all. In shorthanded games it's slightly more importaned but still not a huge part of the game.

4. tdomeski has done a WONDERFUL service and created two such posts. Here they are
Best Posts #1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1199682&page=1&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1)
Best Posts #2 (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=&Number=1204434&page=0 &view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=)

[DaveduFresne]

I would advise against playing the style Doyle recommended, particularly at low limit NL.

I have played virtually every low to low mid limit level, and I have spent much time observing all limits most especially the highest limits.

The only place I have seen Doyle's style being used effectively is shorthanded 10/20 and higher.

Not that you can't incorporate his plays, I would just not move in on every straight draw you get etc.

If you get a tight table, you can bully it, and the great thing about low limit no limit is players rarely play back at you. Mostly, if they think you might be bluffing they just call you. Or if they believe you they just fold. Obviously if they have a set or better they play back at you, but they're rarely replaying you with a draw or nothing.

Most low limit NL tables you'll find to be loose, so you won't want to try to bully it. The main mistakes low limit NL players make is calling too much. So exploit it. Many also never met a flush draw they didn't like. Kill their pot odds, and watch them go broke drawing.

One thing to keep in mind at low limit NL is never doubt the stupidity of your opponents. If they were calling over pot sized bets with a flush draw on the board and the river brings the flush card and they go all in, they probably have it. So don't always assume that just because they didn't have the pot odds that they weren't making those calls.

Stay away from trouble hands. Connectors are very profitable at this limit. If you flop a straight under the right circumstances it will not be unusual for you to triple up.

Don't play AK or Queens for all your chips (preflop). Against rocks don't even play Kings for all your chips.

If you have any other questions feel free to PM me. I have played over 100 thousand hands at the limit you're about to play so I can probably save you a lot of money.

Good Luck,

David

[RoboRob]

awesome, didn't know that he found all those posts, thanks

[DaveduFresne]

I just realized I didn't much address your questions on shorthanded. You can lose a lot of money quickly at shorthanded NL, so I recommend you start out at a full table at least till you get maybe 10k hands under your belt and have a general feel for NL.

You will be able to play a somewhat Doylish style at shorthanded NL, but like I said, even there don't take it to extremes. I think the best image to have is that of the tight aggressive player. Never be loose to the point that you're the one making the tough decisions, not your opponents.

David

[MrTeddyKGB]

thank you and I will right now.