At what point will you guys give me serious advice on a checkup? [Archive]

___1___

05-16-2005, 02:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
At what point will you guys give me serious advice on a checkup?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got no clue where everyone else is coming from with these numbers (10k-50k), but if you've got at least 5k hands I'll be more than happy to give you feedback. For people who say anything under 10k hands doesn't mean anything...that is just completely wrong. Remember we're talking about stats, not winrate...

___1___

P.S. Actually, just PM me your stats since everyone else will be unnecessarily condescending if you post them here.

arkady

05-16-2005, 02:23 PM

you a philantropist now? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

bicyclekick

05-16-2005, 02:27 PM

Damn you guys. You can easily derive worthwhile info from 5k hands. So his stats are not going to have diverged to their true numbers, there are a lot of ones that will stick out and diverge reletively quickly (aggression, vpip and pfr) for example. Went/won sd are a little slower, but reletively quick too. Obviously this stuff is going to be affected by how you're running, but there will be plenty of info from 5k.

___1___

05-16-2005, 02:28 PM

arkady,

I'm just tired of people saying "come back when you have 50k hands" (not specifically you, of course). Someone can't get meaningingful feedback after 5k hands? Gimme a f****** break. From now on I'll be more than happy to look at any stats under 20k hands and the rest of the "superstars" in this forum can comment on anything above that. Fair?

End Rant.

P.S. See ya at the tables tonight, Arkady /images/graemlins/grin.gif

___1___

___1___

05-16-2005, 02:29 PM

BK,

FINALLY, a voice of reason. Thanks.

___1___

arkady

05-16-2005, 02:34 PM

Too bad people only care about win rates. No one ever posted a stat post unless their win rates sucked. Once in a while they would post to brag, they suck even more.

But anyway...i should not get involved in these things.

I will cya there bro.

Silverback

05-16-2005, 02:40 PM

yes, I totally agree,

idiots like arkady cant help but stick there nose in these stat posts and post moron posts.

Arkady, you dont like stat posts so butt out of them, your comments are useless, time and space wasting.

5k is plenty spot flaws in vpip, pfr, att to steal blinds, and blind play,

Obviously bigger the sample the better, but telling a player who might have stats of 40 vpip pfr 5%, to wait till they have play even 5k hands is complete nonsense.

krishanleong

05-16-2005, 02:42 PM

Calm down monkey.

Krishan

sammy_g

05-16-2005, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
50k or more.

[/ QUOTE ]
By the time you get to 50k hands, you will have lost a lot of money from leaks that are easily identifiable after 5k hands.

If anything, my VP$IP and PFR in my last 5k hands are more accurate than in my last 50k hands because my preflop play has evolved since I started playing 6 max.

We're not talking about winrate. (I don't think you can ever really pinpoint your win rate because your quality of play and that of your opponents will have changed by the time you have a statistically significant sample.)

The real danger of stats posts in my opinion is not sample size. It's changing your play in the wrong spots to fit some magical, target PT figures.

arkady

05-16-2005, 02:48 PM

I already said I will you tool. Your post is riddled with idiocy that you yourself can't realize. Calling me an idiot is not going to make you look any better.

This entire forum has been plagued with nothing else except useless stat posts for the past 2 months. If that is what people want to concentrate on, fine. All of you are so obsessed with VPIP, PFR and other bullshit that you don't even know how to play poker anymore. You feverishly check your PT after every session to see if your numbers changed a bit. So pathetic.

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously bigger the sample the better

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. tool.

arkady

05-16-2005, 02:50 PM

You would think that after 20 stat posts, everyone should know what those numbers should be. How exactly do we benefit from having another person's screen shot?

Is everyone really so stupid that they should be told explicitly they need to raise their vpip? Do people not have basic reading comprehension? The problem with this forum is that everyone is so god damn selfish. Spend more time reading other people's posts and less time posting the same redundant crap. Maybe then we can all get by with a 2 or 3 stat posts instead of 20.

krishanleong

05-16-2005, 02:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This entire forum has been riddled with nothing else except useless stat posts for the past 2 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. There is nothing you can gain by posting your stats that 1 hour of research won't tell you.

Krishan

Silverback

05-16-2005, 03:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
useless stat posts for the past 2 months

[/ QUOTE ]

who the hell are you to say what people can and cant post about?

virtually every stat post the last 2 months has your same comments in them.

I have found stat posts myself very useful in improving my game and my winrate with improved understanding of how to best play 6 max,

You are such a complete moron who doesnt like stat posts, yet you post that in the thread and put the stat post to the top of the forum for more exposure, like I said your a complete idiotic moron!

RunDownHouse

05-16-2005, 04:14 PM

Silverback,

I have yet to see you contribute a fraction of what Arkady, Nikla, and others have contributed to the forum. In fact, my impression of your posts is that they contain ad-hominem attacks more often than they do useful content.

Guy McSucker

05-16-2005, 05:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]

these stat posts are getting marginally better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there have been enough of them for you to establish this trend with any confidence. Maybe after another 20k stat posts you can draw some kind of conclusion.

Guy.

SomethingClever

05-16-2005, 05:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

these stat posts are getting marginally better.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there have been enough of them for you to establish this trend with any confidence. Maybe after another 20k stat posts you can draw some kind of conclusion.

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

nh

Wynton

05-16-2005, 05:22 PM

Is there any reason that stat posts couldn't be segregated somehow from other posts pertaining to HUSH? Perhaps there could be a separate sub-category?

I have no idea whether this is practical or possible, but there should be some way of accommodating everyone on this issue.

SomethingClever

05-16-2005, 05:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but there should be some way of accommodating everyone on this issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called, "don't read or comment in posts that you don't care about or think are worthless."

I'm in between both camps on the stat posts.

I've made my fair share, and I think they can be fairly useful if used properly. But they are far from the end-all, be-all of poker analysis that some players seem to think they are.

That said, Buster, you and me should do a side by side 5/10 stat post when we've both reached some arbitrary number of hands.

PokerBob

05-16-2005, 05:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
your a complete idiotic moron!

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Anyone else see the irony here?

sammy_g

05-16-2005, 05:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You would think that after 20 stat posts, everyone should know what those numbers should be.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fair point, although I have been reading the forum for a while and I earnestly don't know what stats are best. Maybe it's because I'm stupid or it's because people give conflicting advice. Maybe it's because my stats look different than those generally recommended, but I have a higher winrate than at least some players who post "normal" 2+2ish stats. Maybe vpip and pfr aren't so important as long as they're in reasonable ranges. I dunno.

Granted, if we don't know what is "optimal" by now, another stats post won't fix that, and we should move on and actually talk poker.

arkady, I think we actually agree. These days, I believe more and more that PT stats are good for identifying obvious problems (vpip 47, pfr 3 -- heh) and little else. I was really responding to the 50k hands comment, which I now suspect you made tongue-in-cheek.

Sam [a recovering stats junkie]

billyjex

05-16-2005, 05:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any reason that stat posts couldn't be segregated somehow from other posts pertaining to HUSH? Perhaps there could be a separate sub-category?

I have no idea whether this is practical or possible, but there should be some way of accommodating everyone on this issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, I don't get it. There are like 1 stat posts for every 50 hand posts, and they are easily identifiable by "STAT POST" in the title. They are so easy to avoid and don't clutter the forum, so why are some people getting so uptight about it?

That said, look for my 30k hand checkup soon, biatches.

arkady

05-16-2005, 06:11 PM

I failed to realize I was arguing with a 5 year old. Arguing on the internet is generally dumb, but against 5 year olds who have a hard time stringing a coherent sentence is even dumber.

Not only did I say I am bowing out of future stat threads, but am posting my last reply to you. Dumb gorilla.

arkady

05-16-2005, 06:14 PM

just to clarify, I only said that because Buster actually asked before posting a random screen shot.

but still funny /images/graemlins/smile.gif

joker122

05-16-2005, 06:20 PM

absolutely, but internet forum trash-talking is gay as [censored] so i'm not going to say anything more.

ddubois

05-16-2005, 06:45 PM

We really should have some sort of Stat Post FAQ: some document that goes through all the typical stats, talks about what the reasonable ranges for each of them are, and what impact one stat has on another (as VPIP goes up, AF and WTSD% should go down, etc.)

wowacedude

05-16-2005, 06:48 PM

word billy.

BusterStacks

05-16-2005, 07:14 PM

I understand the selfish nature of stat posts, but what do you expect? They are MY stats, obviously I am most concerned about them. Arkady, you are one of the HUSH posters whose advice is really helpful, but I think you should try to see where I'm coming from. Suppose I have serious leaks in my game, at 50k hands I will have lost a LOT of bb that maybe could have been lessened if I had posted earlier. Yes, of course I am concerned about winrate, but I am more concerned with whether I am playing at a level that is conducive to winning at all, and if there are glaring errors in my my play. I think this will be apparent well before 50k.

Silverback

05-16-2005, 07:18 PM

thats fine I put u on my ignore list you complete moron,

[ QUOTE ]
Not only did I say I am bowing out of future stat threads, but am posting my last reply to you

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, bowing out of future stat threads, and igoring my posts,

I know now your to weak to do both,

Silverback

05-16-2005, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was really responding to the 50k hands comment, which I now suspect you made tongue-in-cheek.

[/ QUOTE ]

the guys a complete prick, dont give him credit for a tongue in cheek remark, he makes them in most stat posts,

hes like the little nerd who cant get a girlfriend and reckons brothels should be ilegal but cant help but pay for it

helpmeout

05-16-2005, 07:24 PM

5k means nothing its a waste of everybodys time.

If you are worried about your stats after 5k hands then use the search function. Even just look through the next 100 threads.

At least after 20-30k hands you can say well you dont checkraise enough or your turn aggression is too high. You call down too much etc.

Plenty of people run really hot or cold over small sample sizes.

Silverback

05-16-2005, 07:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
We really should have some sort of Stat Post FAQ: some document that goes through all the typical stats, talks about what the reasonable ranges for each of them are, and what impact one stat has on another (as VPIP goes up, AF and WTSD% should go down, etc.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive already been through all past stat posts and recorded all comments etc etc,

everyone has there own theory on poker and no one is 100% right, opinions vary, theres more than 1 way to win at poker,

Alot can be learnt from look at stat posts, thats where most of my improvement has come, as hand histories are dependant on player reads which cant be fully conveyed in a post,

Silverback

05-16-2005, 07:26 PM

Silverback

05-16-2005, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. There is nothing you can gain by posting your stats that 1 hour of research won't tell you.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is complete nonsense.

Ive learnt alot from seeing top players postional stats, aggression on all street, att to steal the blinds etc etc etc

donger

05-16-2005, 07:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
5k means nothing its a waste of everybodys time.

If you are worried about your stats after 5k hands then use the search function. Even just look through the next 100 threads.

At least after 20-30k hands you can say well you dont checkraise enough or your turn aggression is too high. You call down too much etc.

Plenty of people run really hot or cold over small sample sizes.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is really true, then why even bother looking at other players' stats with poker tracker and pview/GT+? They're obviously meaningless until you have 20k+ hands.

helpmeout

05-16-2005, 07:55 PM

Are people on this forum getting dumber or is it just me?

You dont need 20k hands to tell if someone sucks. PV and GT+ is a guide. It is not the be all and end all.

[ QUOTE ]
At what point will you guys give me serious advice on a checkup?

[/ QUOTE ]

See the words "serious advice".

If you post a half-assed 5k stats post you'll get a half-assed answer.

SomethingClever

05-16-2005, 08:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I was really responding to the 50k hands comment, which I now suspect you made tongue-in-cheek.

[/ QUOTE ]

the guys a complete prick, dont give him credit for a tongue in cheek remark, he makes them in most stat posts,

hes like the little nerd who cant get a girlfriend and reckons brothels should be ilegal but cant help but pay for it

[/ QUOTE ]

Silverback: You are easily the worst poster in HUSH. Why don't you move to some other forum with a lower IQ?