An Ed Miller fold or a Lee Jones fold?

[chopper77]

I've still got a lot of work to do on my game- I question myself in marginal situations. Thoughts on this? No reads, 3rd hand at the table.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

In the old days I would probably 3-bet this. I didn't do that here because I'm trying to stop spewing.

Turn: (6 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

Facing 2 cold on the turn with top pair medium kicker and a paired board I figured this was an easy fold. Right?!!!

River: (10 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 10 BB

[MrWookie47]

Raise preflop, and I probably 3bet the flop.

[wyoak]

absent reads i'd have called this down.
if button is very passive you can probably fold this safely, but i'd need a read saying exactly that before i folded.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop, and I probably 3bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

turn fold is alright, but i don't like how you got there. your kicker may not play on some rivers, so you only get half the pot some of the time you had the best hand.

[aron]

grunching

To me this is a Miller fold. The pot isn't very big and with that turn raise button is pretty much telling you that he has a 7.
(Then his river check indicates that he didn't, darn)
Even if you call the turn you have to worry about MP1 making it 3 bets.

I think i would have been leading that turn instead of checking. And also I would have raised this PF.

-aron

[chopper77]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop, and I probably 3bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. I knew I have been playing like a little girl lately. I'm still working on it.

[Buckmulligan]

[ QUOTE ]
In the old days I would probably 3-bet this. I didn't do that here because I'm trying to stop spewing.


[/ QUOTE ]

3 bet this. You are ahead of everything except A7 and A3.

Turn is kind of tricky. Depends on what kind of player MP1 is. I think I call the 2 though.

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
absent reads i'd have called this down.
if button is very passive you can probably fold this safely, but i'd need a read saying exactly that before i folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Button cold called the flop, and then raised the turn when the board paired. I think calling two cold on the turn here is giving up too much. I like his fold. But like many other said, I don't like how he got there.

[Buckmulligan]

[ QUOTE ]
Button cold called the flop, and then raised the turn when the board paired. I think calling two cold on the turn here is giving up too much. I like his fold. But like many other said, I don't like how he got there.

[/ QUOTE ]

What range of hands do you put button on? I'm not saying that a fold is incorrect here, but I think we need to consider a call. Do you think button calls the 2 cold on the flop with 7x? do you think he calls with two pair? A7 is the only hand he has that we are behind against, and i don't think he has it based on the way he played that flop.

[afk]

How about 33 or (unlikely) 77? I can see these hands being played like this. Hero is getting 9:2 immediate when it gets to him and is probably looking at something like 12:3 to call down . I think it's thin since the board is paired.

[kapw7]

With so many limpers PF it's a sin not to raise with ATs. I would even raise with 65s or something similar.

As the button cold called 2 bets I wouldn't like to 3-bet the flop and I would fold the turn as you did. Is this weak? I've lost money lately with SO many paired boards being dealt. But this is Party. What can you say?

[IPSC]

I would seriously consider raising this pre-flop.

I would think you would want to 3 bet this flop and lead the turn when the second 7 falls.

You need to bet this turn though. You don't have anything to fear from A3 now and the there are only two 7's left that can beat you.

[wyoak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
absent reads i'd have called this down.
if button is very passive you can probably fold this safely, but i'd need a read saying exactly that before i folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Button cold called the flop, and then raised the turn when the board paired. I think calling two cold on the turn here is giving up too much. I like his fold. But like many other said, I don't like how he got there.

[/ QUOTE ]

on further consideration you're probably right, especially considering hero isn't closing the betting here.

[Duerig]

You need to raise this preflop. And you need to 3 bet the flop. The hand will play completely differently.

[irishpint]

3 bet flop. if capped id check/fold unimproved. if called id lead the turn.

[walkdoc]

grunching

Raise pre-flop!!!

[Ianco15]

[ QUOTE ]

You are ahead of everything except A7 and A3.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding?

[imported_Reaction]

Grunched:
Preflop this is a clear raise for value.

Flop - Why is this a marginal situation? You have TPDK on a draw-less flop w/no preflop action. The bet is good here. MP1 helped to protect, good. I'd 3 bet see if MP1 caps. If not I'd lead the turn.

Turn - Button wakeing up is scary. Looks like trips. The way you played it: normally passive, fold; normally aggresive - call down.

[2+2 wannabe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You are ahead of everything except A7 and A3.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding?

[/ QUOTE ]

haha i was thinking the same way

T &gt; K &gt; Q &gt; J /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the old days I would probably 3-bet this. I didn't do that here because I'm trying to stop spewing.


[/ QUOTE ]

3 bet this. You are ahead of everything except A7 and A3.

Turn is kind of tricky. Depends on what kind of player MP1 is. I think I call the 2 though.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the second thread where i've seen you forget about a number of hands hero is behind to, either you are assuming that they can't be possible or you are making a big mistake

AJ-AK are possible, not likely but still very possible
77 and 33 likewise

[stlip]

That's why it's imperative you raise with this hand preflop. 1) As a general rule you've got to take more advantage of all these LP limpers. 2) Then, if you had raised, the pot would have been big enough on the turn that you wouldn't need to consider a fold on a hand where, at this limit, one raise doesn't convince me you don't still have the best hand.

I don't think a 3-bet serves much purpose on the flop. I like that the pot is raised and that clears out the weak draws. With just a raiser and someone who has cold-called two you know they like their hands enough to call another bet or two so you would get no new information by 3-betting.

Good hand for discussion, thanks.