2 Bets to me on River vs a Good Player... please offer opinion

[That guy]

I thought this hand was interesting because 2 opponents...

CO is a good player who I have played a lot with
SB is a solid ABC player. I don't think he raises from SB without something really good (JJ+ or AK)...

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO caps</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

River: (10.50 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero folds, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

I will often raise this but decided to switch it up once... don't bother commenting on pre-flop, it isn't all that important here.

[That guy]

I have K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif --- I thought that one of them was going to check-raise the turn for sure. Taking free card is obvious but that makes my river decision tough when I pair the K and the SB comes out betting? Maybe he will bet anything here so I am going to call 1 bet.... but then the CO raises.... wtf? Who calls 2 here?

results to follow... what did each have??

[That guy]

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
CO has Qh Jd (straight, king high).
SB has Kh Ad (two pair, kings and fours).
Outcome: CO wins 14.50 BB. </font>

[Nick Royale]

River fold is standard.

EDIT: turn check also

[Wepeel]

Raising this hand preflop makes it much easier to play. You have high card K on the flop and you 3-bet? You are just waiting for it to get capped which is bad. I like calling the flop and re-evaluating on the turn. Turn is fine and river is fine considering the action as it looks like CO has a set and SB might have hit his AK.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising this hand preflop makes it much easier to play.

[/ QUOTE ]
Raising preflop is mandatory.

[ QUOTE ]
You have high card K on the flop and you 3-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]
Gut-shot + 2nd nut flushdraw makes it good IMO. Plus we might fold AK KQ in the hands of SB and buy outs and a free river.

[That guy]

I could quite easily have 12 outs on the flop... maybe more if K is good (vs QQ or JJ)... I was confused at the time as to what CO had limped with and raised flop... I was surprised to see him check the turn... thought he had diamond draw now... A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif or J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif...
My K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif is good on 2 of 3 there...

[Wepeel]

[ QUOTE ]
Gut-shot + 2nd nut flushdraw makes it good IMO. Plus we might fold AK KQ in the hands of SB and buy outs and a free river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must be blind as I thought the board was two diamonds and a heart. I still like calling here better, because you don't want AK or KQ to fold here.

[Nick Royale]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Gut-shot + 2nd nut flushdraw makes it good IMO. Plus we might fold AK KQ in the hands of SB and buy outs and a free river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must be blind as I thought the board was two diamonds and a heart. I still like calling here better, because you don't want AK or KQ to fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would we not want KQ fold giving us 5 extra outs?

[That guy]

because you don't want AK or KQ to fold here.

I wanted precisely AK to fold... I don't think SB raises pre-flop with KQ so wasn't worried about that. I really thought he had JJ-AA or AK... when SB bets the river, he might have anything given the turn was checked... although since he bet, I would have to think AK or KK-AA is now most likely...

when CO raises, I can't figure out what he has... A set or 2-pair made some sense -- until he checked the turn... what do I possible beat that he is raising here on the river???

funny but analyzing it now makes the fold much more clear-cut than at the time... where I really felt like calling but resisted simply being confused over what the CO had...

[Wada]

Before I looked at your posted results, I put SB on AK once he bet the river.

For CO I figured ATo with the A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif with his raising and capping on the flop. On river I figured more than likely he now has KTo. It sure looked like a check raise was coming and that he possibly had a made flush on the flop, although usually they like to wait for the turn to do their raising with their made hands. I guess CO really likes to pump his openended straight draws.

Good river fold btw.

[That guy]

I guess CO really likes to pump his openended straight draws.

I play with him a lot and he plays very aggressively on flop... for made hands or draws. it makes playing marginal hands very hard to play. In this case, he is pumping OESD with a 3-flush on board... He has mediocre 1 card flush draw (J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif) and actually only has the non-diamond outs here.

I don't love the way he played it... In reality, he put in too much money for ~6 outs... But as it turned out, he maximized it... his play is not bad here although I don't think it is optimal...

but for metagame, it might be good... you know it is going to get expensive to play a pot with him so many 3/6 donks will just fold better hands when he pumps the flop round.

Variance up, win rate up...