the wrong time for pot control?

[fsuplayer]

party NL 1000NL 6 handed

1 fold, i ($2.7k) raise A10o with two tighties on my left.

they fold and i almost succeed in isolating my man, the huge lagish SB with $2k in front. the BB puts a snag in my plan and we're off to the flop of...

10c10s8c

SB leads out for $100, which is weird, havent seen him do that yet, maybe/hopefully he has a 10.

but once again, BB gets in the way and calls pretty quick.

i raise to $450, SB had the auto call button on i think, and BB calls almost as quick.

turn: 7x, they chk, i decide to check behind, thinking that while i dont like a free card, i think that 88 and 97s are good enough possibilities, and I would just about throw up if i bet and was raised, esp. by the sane BB.

is my thinking off here?

if you like a bet, how much, and what do you do if i am raised by one of the villians?

thanks,


fsuplayer

[chuddo]

well after the SB bets right out and the BB calls and you raise and they both call, you are letting them know you at least have something, and neither seemed to mind very much.

after both callers, and the turn completing the J9 oesd, you are in a somewhat difficult spot.

that would pretty bad for one of them to catch a free river club to the nut flush, as i assume you weren't holding the Ac?

BB could easily be holding 88 here and be loving his relative position if in fact you hold an overpair/10 and the ultra-lag SB is holding a 10 or a big draw that is drawing dead.

that possibility alone makes checking here a decent idea, and i look to see how the river action plays out.

there is another good reason for the river check in this spot: assuming a brick falls, neither of them are going to risk it getting checked through again, and wont attempt a check raise. this will allow you to make a value bet on the river if checked to as there won't be that fear.

i look forward to the river and subsequent action.

[fsuplayer]

sorry, it was late last night, the turn was a 6, which is why i said i feared 79s.

and I didnt have the Ac.

[Bosox]

I like a check behind on the turn since the blinds both represented a lack of fear. The river play will be indicative of what you're facing, and i like chuddo's lines. At least you wont fear the CR. (wrong time for pot control)

[creedofhubris]

Bet this turn. 79 and 88 are monsters under the bed. any ten will give you mondo dominated action.

[thatpfunk]

Hum...

This is tough. BTW, what was the BBs stack? Is he semi-thinking? Will he attempt a nice tidy value bet on the river to try to get both you and the SB to come along? If so I like this line more than your other options (which are basically nill... the more I think about it, it seems like you're stuck checking here).

[chuddo]

[ QUOTE ]

there is another good reason for the river check in this spot:

[/ QUOTE ]

i meant turn check.

anyway, whaaaa happened?

[thatpfunk]

[ QUOTE ]
79 and 88 are monsters under the bed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that what you are supposed to see when it has been bet into PF raiser, cold called, Hero raises ~pot, cold-call, cold-call? He didn't say BB was donk-tastic...

I'm curious what some posters think the best case scenario is here.

[sMethod]

By betting your going to find out where you are if one of them makes a large check raise on the turn, and if either or both are on a draw your making them pay to see the next card. BB Could have J/images/graemlins/club.gif9/images/graemlins/club.gif or slowing playing a floped full house with 88. Depending on how much u raised pre flop and how much each of u had in ur stack would determine if he hand could be as weak as J9s. If SB if the sucker at the table he might be calling with any thing. The big problem with betting is with something like 1500 in the pot you have to risk too much to make a decent sized wager. If you bet 750 and either player moved all in you would, as you so elequiently put it throw up. If either called then check to you with the best hand you got to see it for cheap and if they had a worse hand you got more value with the best hand. If a scare card hits the river and they bet you have an easy lay down. Betting the right amount would be key 750 is investing alot into a hand that you might have to lay down maybe 550, 600, or 650. Just my thoughts what do u sharks think?/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Just my thoughts what do u sharks think?

[/ QUOTE ]

get me something to eat

[creedofhubris]

Best case (IMO, most likely case) is a smaller ten and a flush draw.

[fsuplayer]

BB started with $2k. he is a decent, but not great regular. prob. a winning player by a little.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
79 and 88 are monsters under the bed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that what you are supposed to see when it has been bet into PF raiser, cold called, Hero raises ~pot, cold-call, cold-call? He didn't say BB was donk-tastic...

I'm curious what some posters think the best case scenario is here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, this is 6-handed, which leans me even more towards substantially betting the turn.

[fsuplayer]

so i checked the turn behind (which i said in my edited post was a 6, not a 7).

river was a 5, maniac checks, BB bets $200.

call or raise?

[flawless_victory]

[ QUOTE ]
so i checked the turn behind (which i said in my edited post was a 6, not a 7).

river was a 5, maniac checks, BB bets $200.

call or raise?

[/ QUOTE ]i would not bet the turn. on the river, i guess you gotta raise...

[chuddo]

$200 into a 1500 pot?

im pretty sure you are golden here unless the SB is a knob and going for a risky double check-raise on the turn and then river.

but i don't really see much of a hand that is going to call a value raise here. maybe J10 was out there that picked up the gutshot on the turn.

i don't see any upside to raising here because i can't think of anything that will pay you off.

min-raise to piss him off?

[Yeti]

No way am I giving a free river card with $1.5k in the middle.

Lead the turn for ~$900 and call a push.

[dankhank]

yea you have to bet this turn. this smells like profitable opportunity. 97 is what you're mostly worried about but hey, you are supposed to be gambling. if BB is a semi-winning regular who says he even calls the flop raise with 97 there.

at the spur of the moment i would've checked also (because pot control is nice) but upon close scrutiny you are good too often and getting paid if you make a nice bet of 750 and call any raise (unless they both raise). full speed ahead.

action on the river confirms you were ahead and BB's bet should be raised to 700, hoping someone calls with a ten, or possibly something else.

[Rococo]

I just have a hard time believing that the SB has 79 or 88. Given the action on the flop, I feel like he would lead the turn with either of those holdings. I put him on a hand like JT. BB is tougher. Again, I have a tough time putting him on 79 after the flop action. 88 is a possibility, but my guess is that he has A /images/graemlins/club.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif. He didn't move in on the flop because he is concerned that his overcard outs are no good. He puts you on a good T and thinks that he has a chance to stack you both if he hits his draw. Bottom line. I agree with CofH that you need to bet the turn here.

If you check behind on the turn, I think that you have to consider a fold if a scare card hits on the river, SB leads at the pot, and BB moves in. Given the actual river action, I put in a small raise. It looks like the roles were reversed. SB had the draw, and BB a hand like JT.