I once read a thread, 'Droolie pumping a draw'

[NateDog]

Open for discussion:

I am playing without Playerview/Gametime open so ...
UTG is fairly aggressive postflop, will bet/raise middle pair or TPNK.

Button has LAG tendencies, and loves the check/call check/raise line with a made hand.

Hero is a donk.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (15 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, MP2 calls $0.25 (All-In), Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (28.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players, 1 all-in)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: 30.25 BB

[GrunchCan]

I would not have capped the flop; up until that point it looks good. The play changes if you don't cap the flop.

Given that you did cap the flop, I like everything after.

[badbill7]

dont like the bb call pre flop not enough players to play such a fring hand so early in position sets up for failure then you have to put someone on king on turn but cant be sure so play was good after preflop mistake

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
Given that you did cap the flop, I like everything after.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the second nut flush do you raise the river? I think I would. Or are you going for overcalls? The king flush is possible (but overall flat out unlikely) and giving credit for the straight flush is crazy.

[GrunchCan]

Getting 9:1 &amp; closing the action, PF is fine. In fact, folding would be pretty bad.

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
Getting 9:1 &amp; closing the action, PF is fine. In fact, folding would be pretty bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

This much I knew.

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given that you did cap the flop, I like everything after.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the second nut flush do you raise the river? I think I would. Or are you going for overcalls? The king flush is possible (but overall flat out unlikely) and giving credit for the straight flush is crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The button waking up on the turn bothered me a bit. Given my read of him, he likes his hand. Is my skirt too short?

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given that you did cap the flop, I like everything after.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the second nut flush do you raise the river? I think I would. Or are you going for overcalls? The king flush is possible (but overall flat out unlikely) and giving credit for the straight flush is crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered raising, but after thinking about it for a moment it seems counter-productive. The button will show you Kx/images/graemlins/heart.gif fairly often I think, and UTG isn't going to overcall anything often - he certianly won't call 2.

[badbill7]

grunchcan this is where i get confused i know odds are not bad but ssh tells you to fold that hand in tight game and with five players including hero i feel thats tight please help me understand why it is a good call

[cold_cash]

Grunch, why aren't you capping this flop?

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Given that you did cap the flop, I like everything after.

[/ QUOTE ]

With the second nut flush do you raise the river? I think I would. Or are you going for overcalls? The king flush is possible (but overall flat out unlikely) and giving credit for the straight flush is crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The button waking up on the turn bothered me a bit. Given my read of him, he likes his hand. Is my skirt too short?

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember that you said button has LAG tendancies. And plays strong with a made hand.

Made hands you are afraid of: King flush, straight flush.
Made hands you are not afraid of: any other flush. any straight. any set. any two pair.

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
The button will show you Kx/images/graemlins/heart.gif fairly often I think,

[/ QUOTE ]

think so? It's just too specific for me. With a weaker flush I wouldn't raise, but with 2nd nut I might put the raise in. Since hero says button has LAG tendencies you might even be able to get him to 3bet you with a worse hand.

[NateDog]

[ QUOTE ]
grunchcan this is where i get confused i know odds are not bad but ssh tells you to fold that hand in tight game and with five players including hero i feel thats tight please help me understand why it is a good call [/qoute]

This table is loose. UTG raised PF, and got how many cold-callers? My relative position (closing the action as Grunch pointed out) to the PF raiser allows me to make the call with a marginal hand. I'm going to have to hit the flop here to continue, but my position will actually allow me to see the action on the flop and decide my plan from there, as PF raiser is to my immediate left.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch, why aren't you capping this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Becasue the flush felt vulnerable given the number of opponents. But then I noticed the weak straight draw, and now I've reconsidered. Capping the flop looks much better.

Sorry, I haven't posted any strategy advice in a week or more - I must be rusty.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
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The button will show you Kx/images/graemlins/heart.gif fairly often I think,

[/ QUOTE ]

think so? It's just to specific for me. With a weaker flush I wouldn't raise, but with 2nd nut I might put the raise in. Since hero says button has LAG tendencies you might even be able to get him to 3bet you with a worse hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I missed the button's LAG read. I take it all back!

[badbill7]

grunchcan this is where i get confused i know odds are not bad but ssh tells you to fold that hand in tight game and with five players including hero i feel thats tight please help me understand why it is a good call [/qoute}

This table is loose. UTG raised PF, and got how many cold-callers? My relative position (closing the action as Grunch pointed out) to the PF raiser allows me to make the call with a marginal hand. I'm going to have to hit the flop here to continue, but my position will actually allow me to see the action on the flop and decide my plan from there, as PF raiser is to my immediate left.





thks for the reply sorry if i ask dumb questions but still not seeing real benefit unless you think pot is raised enough to make it profitable then i guess you would have a point. i agree though with all responders that i would cap this

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
thks for the reply sorry if i ask dumb questions but still not seeing real benefit unless you think pot is raised enough to make it profitable then i guess you would have a point. i agree though with all responders that i would cap this

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not a dumb question. It's kind of a counter-intuitive play if you've studied &amp; learned to throw crap away. You've correctly identified this hand as a marginal hand. But even marginal hands can be profitable. Much of the difference between breakeven poker and lucrative poker comes from the ability to play marginal hands.

[badbill7]

It's not a dumb question. It's kind of a counter-intuitive play if you've studied &amp; learned to throw crap away. You've correctly identified this hand as a marginal hand. But even marginal hands can be profitable. Much of the difference between breakeven poker and lucrative poker comes from the ability to play marginal hands.


in thinking it over i guess everyone calling behind button raiser would maybey make hand profitable just have a difficult time making call thks for all the responses though it is much appreciated

[SoftcoreRevolt]

I raise this river. Your flop action has disguised your hand REALLY well, so a lower flush is going to be really confident that he has the only flush out here right now. I'm not worried about Kxs.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I haven't posted any strategy advice in a week or more - I must be rusty.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has coincided with my downswing. I transfer responsibility to you.