Pretty neat hand [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

DavidC

05-15-2005, 01:13 AM

I'm really tired. Sorry if this isn't as neat as I currently think it is.

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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($52.25)
SB ($24.25)
Hero ($28.45)
UTG ($12.05)
UTG+1 ($15.77)
MP1 ($88.65)
MP2 ($16.55)
MP3 ($32.93)
CO ($10.3)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
4 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.60) J/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $1, Hero calls $1.

Turn: ($2.60) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $2, MP3 calls $2.

River: ($6.60) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $4, MP3 raises to $8, Hero raises to $15, MP3 calls $7.

Final Pot: $36.60

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I will sometimes raise PF and I will often bet the flop, FWIW. I didn't this time though.

Since many people with a straight would checkraise the turn, I'm betting out, representing an ace, including two pairs, aces and 5's.

I'm hoping that he has two pair and chooses to raise me.

I should have taken a peek at the board before I did this, and realized that AK would have raised pf, and probably AJ too. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

On the river, I put him on a pair that he's willing to pay with, so I bet 2/3 the pot to see if I can get a call. On the river, I don't want to put too much cash in there, just in case he folds.

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Results:
Hero has Tc Qc (straight, ace high).
MP3 has Ac 9d (two pair, aces and nines).
Outcome: Hero wins $36.60.

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More I think about this, the more it makes sense. The only hand that the villain needs concern himself with on the turn is A5, unless I hit my straight. I'm representing an ace, and he's probably got me crushed on the turn. It's a decent turn call and river raise by him.

--Dave.

xorbie

05-15-2005, 03:57 AM

This is clearly a situation where you should raise more on the river. The way he played the hand shows a considerable amount of strength, and you should definetely be able to get at least $20 in on the river.

DavidC

05-15-2005, 10:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is clearly a situation where you should raise more on the river. The way he played the hand shows a considerable amount of strength, and you should definetely be able to get at least $20 in on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Duly noted. He seemed to take a while making the river raise. You think this was a reverse tell, a genuine dilema, or something that I can ignore? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

He seems to be the type of player that will stack off with one pair, so I don't have to worry too much about losing him in the future.

The neat thing about this hand is how HE played it, and why he played it that way. But thanks for the comments on the hand. I'll keep that in mind for sure!

--Dave.

Gustavo

05-15-2005, 10:53 AM

thats what i was thinking , he´s giving you action you have to extract more from the river.

rikz

05-15-2005, 01:10 PM

On the flop you have an OESD and a back door flush draw. With .6 in the pot, I'd bet .6 instead of check/call. You'll win the hand vs over cards that didn't pair and maybe low pairs. In this case, he'd probably fold A-high and you'd win with a worse hand on the flop. If he calls, you can see where you're at as to whether you check or bet the turn.

If you miss your draw on the turn, then betting would be good versus a villain who you suspect will fold TPWK to a second bet, while checking would be better against a calling station that will call you down with TPWK or 2nd pair. That kind of passive villain might even give you a free card if you check the turn.

If villain raises your flop bet, then you can call to see if you hit the str8 on the turn - depending on the size of villain's flop raise and the pot odds + implied odds.

Bottom line for me is that I like to bet these kinds of flops like I already have a hand because I can win without improvement if villain folds, I can win if I improve, and when I do improve against a calling station who has a decent hand like 2-pair then I can stack him because my str8 is disguised pretty well.

Finally, if I get caught once or twice semi-bluffing, then I get more action when I bet my sets down to the river since villains won't know if I was semi-bluffing or had the real deal. Overall, I think betting your strong draws aggressively is an overall positive as long as you are careful not to go too far with the semi-bluffs once the pot gets a little bigger and you find you're in with a calling station.

Godfather80

05-15-2005, 01:19 PM

Does anybody else see the flop call as loose, getting only 1.6:1 on an OESD against a player who limped preflop? What I mean is: is this player likely to love his hand enough to pay you off when you hit 8 outer on the turn or river.

For my money, I think it's rather dubious. Had he raised preflop or indicated that he was tied to the hand at all, then I'd think differently. As it stands, it would appear to me watching MP3's flop overbet, that he is just trying to steal the pot, not build it with a top pair or medium pair hand.

I'm glad the hand worked out the way it did, but I think that in the long run, you're better off betting this flop than taking the line you took.

DavidC

05-15-2005, 02:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop you have an OESD and a back door flush draw. With .6 in the pot, I'd bet .6 instead of check/call. You'll win the hand vs over cards that didn't pair and maybe low pairs. In this case, he'd probably fold A-high and you'd win with a worse hand on the flop. If he calls, you can see where you're at as to whether you check or bet the turn.

If you miss your draw on the turn, then betting would be good versus a villain who you suspect will fold TPWK to a second bet, while checking would be better against a calling station that will call you down with TPWK or 2nd pair. That kind of passive villain might even give you a free card if you check the turn.

If villain raises your flop bet, then you can call to see if you hit the str8 on the turn - depending on the size of villain's flop raise and the pot odds + implied odds.

Bottom line for me is that I like to bet these kinds of flops like I already have a hand because I can win without improvement if villain folds, I can win if I improve, and when I do improve against a calling station who has a decent hand like 2-pair then I can stack him because my str8 is disguised pretty well.

Finally, if I get caught once or twice semi-bluffing, then I get more action when I bet my sets down to the river since villains won't know if I was semi-bluffing or had the real deal. Overall, I think betting your strong draws aggressively is an overall positive as long as you are careful not to go too far with the semi-bluffs once the pot gets a little bigger and you find you're in with a calling station.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet the flop probably 60-75% of the time. I bet 0.5 if I bet it, possibly 0.75 or 1, but never ever 0.6. I raise preflop maybe 15-25% of the time, also.

Any comments on the turn and river play?

Edit: I agree with everything that you've said here, though. I'll play the same way maybe 60-75% of the time (that I don't raise pf). /images/graemlins/smile.gif