View Full Version : Not Tiger's Finest Moment
andyfox
12-01-2002, 10:38 PM
On the 18th hole of the Skins Game today, Tiger hits a ball into a greenside trap and says, "I got hosed again." Did he really think he played better today than the results? Then, while blasting out, apparently someone took a picture while he was on his downswing and he got pissed. Gee, Barry Bonds manages to hit a 98 mph fastball which, if he's not careful, could kill him, with 50,000 people screaming, why can't Tiger hit a stationary object if a camera clicks?
JTG51
12-01-2002, 11:06 PM
Did I dream this, or were there two Skins games this year? I'm sure I watched for a few minutes at a relatives house on Thanksgiving. Then there was the one this weekend. Both called The Skins, but they had different rules (no validation for the weekend one). Tiger played in both, but the Thanksgiving edition featured Parnevik, Montgomery, and Norman.
Can someone explain this to me?
By the way, I agree with you Andy. It seems that Tiger has a lot of "not best" moments. I like the guy, I usually root for him, but he makes it hard sometimes. He just sounds SO arrogant and stuck up a lot of the time, it rubs me the wrong way.
the one you watched on Thanksgiving was from last year. This year's one had no validation.
you make a few good points about tiger, but I don't think you can compare hitting a baseball with hitting a golf ball. For one, hitting a baseball is more reactive. Because you're reacting to stimuli, it's easier to zone out the other noise. tough to do with golf, since it's just sitting there for you. Here, you don't swing until you're ready. sudden noise can completely change the environment that you have set up for yourself.
In baseball, there is a lot of background noise, but, it's a constant wall of sound. nothing really stands out, and it's easy to block it out. in golf, it's usually silent, so every unexpected noise is disruptive.
switch the two environments, and I'm sure you'd have barry bonds complaining about shutter clicks, while tiger plays on through fifty thousand sceaming fans.
JTG51
12-01-2002, 11:42 PM
Oh, that explains it. I'm surprised I didn't remember Norman winning all of the Skins last year.
Why didn't he play this year? Isn't the winner always invited back the next year? Is he hurt again?
BruceZ
12-01-2002, 11:47 PM
Barry Bonds manages to hit a 98 mph fastball which, if he's not careful, could kill him, with 50,000 people screaming
Except that he doesn't hit it a high percentage of the time. Tiger always hits it, and with alot more precision. In baseball, there is a constant drone of fans, so no one sound is likely to stand out as a distraction. In golf, you can hear a pin drop, so any sound is potentially distracting. I don't know if the camera had a flash, but that would be very distracting, and I doubt that would be allowed in golf, while it is allowed in baseball. You can't take flash pictures at a PBA bowling tourney for the same reason.
andyfox
12-01-2002, 11:50 PM
I think the PBA tournaments have changed a lot the past few years. Years ago they were quiet like a golf tournament. Now, if what I'm remembering seeing on TV a while back is the way things are, they're quite raucus, I imagine, as an effort to pump life into a moribund sport.
I didn't see a flash, and I can't imagine there was one as it was a bright, sunny day.
BruceZ
12-01-2002, 11:59 PM
I just attended a PBA TV event a few weeks ago. The fans are instructed to be silent and not move until the ball is released, and then to cheer as loudly as possible while the ball is making its way down the lane, then cheer a strike or spare and awwww a miss. You can hear a pin drop before the ball is released. On today's show someone's beeper went off, and a bowler stepped off the approach immediately and started over. Beepers are not allowed either. Last year I attended a senior PBA tour event, not the finals, and fans could speak and move around freely, though you still couldn't take flash pictures as I was informed by Mark Roth /forums/images/icons/blush.gif
BTW, I love watching bowling and don't find it boring at all. If you are a bowler and know what to look for, it is actually quite interesting. I've learned alot watching these guys. It's actually a more interesting sport now than it was say 20 years ago due to changes broung about by ball technology. There are now many different strategies and techniques for playing different oil patterns.
Today's final match between Norm Duke and David Traber was especially exciting. Duke had led the whole way, but Traber came back in the 9th and 10th with a 4-bagger, then Duke answered back with a turkey of his own in the 10th (so both players made 3 strikes in the 10th) to end in a 245-245 tie. They went into a sudden death rolloff. Both opened with a strike on the first ball. Then both rolled 9 on the second ball. Traber rolled another 9 on the 3rd ball, and Duke finished him off with a strike. Announcers said it was the best TV final in years, and a critical match for Duke who is trying to get back to the tournament of champions.
Tiger was playing pretty good. I didn't see his shot that led to the "hosed" comment, but did see the bunker shot. Tiger later admitted to his pal O'Meara that he "spazzed" at the idiot with the camera. But he has a right to blow up IMO. He gets so many distractions due to incompetent idiots in the media or morons in the crowd it's not funny. Every photographer knows you don't take a picture in a guy's swing. That one did. It should lead to immediate expulsion from the tournament for the photographer. It was a 200,000 shot potentially and moron did one of the most distracting things possible. His employer should donate 20% of 200,000 to Tiger's charity (charity's potential cut)and send moron to cover dog shows. He or she should only cover golf again after having to caddie for abusive drunks or something. I am exaggerating slightly, but that level of incompetence should not be allowed as it interferes with the outcome. And Tiger did really well on holding back the profanity since he was miked. Tiger is not G rated on the course.
BruceZ
12-02-2002, 02:20 AM
Tiger is not G rated on the course.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you someone who's good at losing". Or just "show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser".
patrick dicaprio
12-02-2002, 11:55 AM
as a bowler myself i cant believe how good those guys really are. whenyou watch these guys it is just crazy how easily they will string strikes together, and can lose while bowling 260.
Pat
Munga30
12-02-2002, 12:05 PM
Round ball.
Target moves very fast AND spins (the racquet-sport crowd can appreciate this one).
Delivery is varied by a (usually) tricky human.
Cylindrical bat.
Contacting surfaces are relatively smooth without a lot of opportunity for surface friction to improve the quality of contact.
Crowd noise aside, is there any more difficult athletic skill than hitting a baseball?
John Cole
12-02-2002, 02:11 PM
Could be the photographer was an amateur. So, how much does Tiger or his caddy pay for the camera summarily dismissed into the nearby lake?
John
They do not allow spectators to have cameras. I would make the person pay Tiger for the hassle of throwing it in the lake. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif
A cell phone went off right before one of O'Meara's shots. Luckily it wasn't in his backswing. I kind of liked his sarcastic "I'll get that." But in general people who shoot pictures or allow their cell phone to go off at a tournament should be treated like the Ohio State rioters in that picture. Two crowd-control canisters of pepper spray in the face and an escort out with a riot club directing you. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif
I think he was playing a tournament in Australia whose schedule conflicted with the skins game this year. usually, the winner is invited back.
as an ex baseball player, I'd have to agree that it is the single most difficult task that I've ever faced.
Add to that the need to make a go/no go decision on each pitch, and you have one steep hill to climb. That I could mash on a 90+mph fastball makes my inability to hit a damn stationary golf ball straight all the more frustrating.
totally different tasks, though (I keep telling myself)
BruceZ
12-02-2002, 04:47 PM
The oil patterns the pros play on are much more difficult than what you find in your typical bowling center. In most amateur league play, there is a block of oil in the center of the lane that extends out to the 8th board from the gutter in a straight line. This creates a funnel effect that tends to guide balls into the pocket even if they are thrown offline. If the pros were to play on this condition, scoring would be 20-50 pins higher. The patterns they play on demand much greater acccuracy. On some conditions scoring might average 220s-240s, while in major championships the conditions are so demanding that scores just over 200 can easily win. Over the course of the season, the best are now averaging close to 230.
They also have uncanny consistency of both aim and speed control. Parker Bohn's shot in a final was measured to not vary from his target by more than 1/4 inch at 40 feet! Their ball speeds do not vary by more than a few tenths of a mph. I've seen Norm Duke vary his speed by over 10 mph and still hit a desired speed to within 0.2 mph.
what was that that flew right over my head? /forums/images/icons/smile.gif
must be the same thing flying over other people's heads when I get started about fishing or golf (or poker, truth be told).
never knew bowling was so scientific (although I guess that's to be assumed). I always though of it as toss the ball, drink the beer, pay up the bets.
patrick dicaprio
12-02-2002, 05:07 PM
exactly. where i bowl everyone with reasonable skill averages over 200 because the oil pattern is so easy. it kills me when i see bad bowlers drop the ball and hit the pocket. if you bowl, and i am guessing you do , you know what i mean. i shudder to think what parker bohn would do in my local house.
question for you: is parker bohn a top 5 bowler?
Pat
BruceZ
12-02-2002, 05:29 PM
Parker is one of the top money winners lifetime, but so far he's having a slow year. He's not near the top this year in earnings or in world ranking. My favorite bowler Walter Ray Williams Jr. is 1st in lifetime earnings with 2.6 million, and until this week he was first this year in both earnings and world ranking. He may have dropped to second in world ranking since Chris Barnes did well this week. I bowled with him a few weeks ago in a pro-am and actually beat his score. Somehow I don't think he was giving it 100% /forums/images/icons/smile.gif See all the stats at www.pba.com (http://www.pba.com)
BTW, I didn't describe the action of yesterday's final quite right; it was even more exciting than I what I said. Duke came from behind in regulation to finish with 6 strikes in a row, forcing Traber to strike out in the 10th to tie which he did. Then Duke won the sudden death rolloff in 3 balls. I thought Duke was going to lose it the way he kept fidgeting with his tape, and he even balked once. He is very good mentally though, and he really wanted to win.
Amateur scores are inflated, that's true, but a 200 average is still admirable. Subtract maybe 20 pins to compare yourelf to typical pro conditions. Amateurs now have the ability to compete on more demanding conditions in so called "sport bowling" leagues offered in certain centers around the country. The oil is measured by computer and can only vary by a ratio of 2-1, while for other leagues it can vary by 10-1. This allows you to compare your score accurately to bowlers across the country.
BruceZ
12-02-2002, 06:16 PM
Parker was the PBA player of the year twice in 1999 and in 2001. He had the high average both years, and he had the highest average in history with 228.04 in 1999. He was the all time points leader at the end of last season. As far as I can tell he is 3rd in career earnings at 2.2 million just behind Walter Ray Williams Jr. and Pete Weber. He also wrote the best book on bowling I have seen.
Jason Pohl
12-02-2002, 09:46 PM
The real problem is that Parker Bohn is a lefty. It's become so difficult to compare lefties and righties, and while the PBA is doing everything it can to make life on lefties hard, the bottom line is that lane conditions break down for righties, requiring difficult entry angles and constant adjustment. Parker finds a shot and keeps on shooting it game after game, moving far less than righties. Furthermore, Parker's line is a very smooth straight-on stroker's game. Righties have other folks screwing up their lines, and they are forced to take a far more difficult middle line very often.
Having said that, Parker is still damn good, and is definitely a top 5 bowler, regardless of any advantage of being a lefty. But these factors cannot help but bring me more amazement at the skill of Walter Ray.
--Jason
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.