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View Full Version : KQo against LAG. Who's the maniac???


imported_PP123
05-14-2005, 06:17 AM
This hand ended to be very expensive to me and I wonder if I should have been in it in the first place.

CO in this hand is the same as SB in this hand (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2392047&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1). He is very aggressive preflop. He plays 50% of all hands and raises about half of them. Post-flop he calms down but is usually aggressive if he catches anything. He likes bluffing if someone esle has shown weakness by just check/calling. But he respects me very much.

EP2 and EP3 are both loose and call raises liberally. EP3 is more or less a callingstation and EP2 is quite loose-passive too, but he's a thinking one and has had some good ideas. According to have they had play so far, there were no chance that they would fold to my 3-bet preflop.

6/12 Live

Hero is on the button with KQo.
EP2 calls, EP3 calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, EP2 calls, EP3 calls, CO caps, Hero calls, EP2 calls, EP3 calls.

Flop: (17.5 SB) JT3, 2 spades (4 players)
EP2 checks, EP3 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, EP2 calls, EP3 calls, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, EP2 calls, EP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (14.50 BB) T (4 players)
EP2 checks, EP3 checks, CO checks, Hero checks???.

River: (14.50 BB) 5 (4 players)
EP2 bets, EP3 calls, CO folds, Hero folds.

It's first of all my preflop play I wonder about. CO had been raising with crap the all night and I just wanted to take the idiot's money. Without the limpers I guess my 3-bet would have been standard, right? I knew there were no chance I would get it heads-up but I didn't want to fold this hand against this guy and being the first cold-caller didn't feel right. If KQo is OK to 3-bet with how far down can you go? KJo, KTo, ATo, 77?

What do you think about my post-flop play? The flop 3-bet is OK I think, but the turn check??? I had my reasons but what do you think??? (When thinking about it now, I think the check was awful)

All comments about my play is welcome! Please comment this hand (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2392047&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1) too if you want.

Klepton
05-14-2005, 06:44 AM
again this is a perfectly played hand, you were right to think CO had absolutely nothing as he folded the river

good check on the turn

Bigdaddydvo
05-14-2005, 06:50 AM
I normally fold this PF unless you're positive that you're ahead (which you sound reasonably sure of).

I would 3-bet this flop only if I had K /images/graemlins/spade.gif....did you?

Turn check is nice, river played itself. Not too bad.

MoDOH
05-14-2005, 07:18 AM
How can you play this any differently? given the reads youīve given i think you played it perfectly. just calling preflop is fine also since you donīt have any folding equity against these players. But threebetting here is definitely for value...
threebetting the flop is a nobrainer and if you donīt threebet this all the time you are losing money.
Turn is good since you wonīt win the pot here and getting raised would suck
River is good.

Question. where did u play these hands? My guess is that yu played them in Casino Cosmopol. yes?

imported_PP123
05-14-2005, 07:26 AM
In normal cases I fold KQo to a raise without a second thought. But against this guy...

I think KQo (if suited it's an easy easy 3-bet of course) is on the lower end of 3-betting hands, though. What would I do if I had ATo, KJs or 77? How do the limpers affect the decision?

I didn't have a /images/graemlins/spade.gif, but I think the flop 3-bet is standard; for value, for free card, for clearing overcards/driving out opponents.

About the turn check. In the heat of battle my reasons to not bet were that it wouldn't improve my winning chances anyway; these guys wouldn't fold and I probably didn't have the best hand after the flop action. But now afterwards I think I should have bet to make them pay if they were on a draw. But I don't know...

imported_PP123
05-14-2005, 07:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]

Question. where did u play these hands? My guess is that yu played them in Casino Cosmopol. yes?

[/ QUOTE ]

U were there too?

imported_PP123
05-14-2005, 07:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
just calling preflop is fine also since you donīt have any folding equity against these players.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have never understand what this 'folding equity' means. Could you please explain?

imported_PP123
05-14-2005, 11:27 AM
Bump

mtgordon
05-14-2005, 11:54 AM
Couple of things. You can't bet the turn to punish people that are on a draw because you yourself are on a draw. You don't get anything from them unless your draw comes in and at this point you don't have the 1:3 odds that you would need to value bet.

Folding equity: it is the equity that you gain in the pot by making people fold. You already have the right idea you just don't know it. When you're talking about knocking out overcards you're talking about folding equity. Your chances of winning the pot increase becuase you can now win with a high card K if nobody has anything (not likely, but that's the idea). However, when people are calling stations you don't have any folding equity because they will just call no matter what.

squeek12
05-14-2005, 12:13 PM
The check on the turn was the correct play. Take your free card, if you hit your straight or an over you will likely have someone betting into your straight and you raise or your pair and you call.

MoDOH
05-14-2005, 02:13 PM
well I played in the 100-200 in gothenburg...

imported_PP123
05-14-2005, 09:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Couple of things. You can't bet the turn to punish people that are on a draw because you yourself are on a draw. You don't get anything from them unless your draw comes in and at this point you don't have the 1:3 odds that you would need to value bet.


[/ QUOTE ]
My thinking was that if I had the best hand on turn because they all were on a draw too (not very likely) I would made them pay and I could take a free showdown win with K-high.

When I read what I just wrote I realise that this scenario is very unlikely. I guess you should only use this continuation bet on the turn with a draw if there is a resonble chance you still has the best hand. This hand does not fit that criteria.

[ QUOTE ]
well I played in the 100-200 in gothenburg...

[/ QUOTE ]
I played 50/100 in Malmo (so I guess I should have written $7/$14). Unfortunately they never have 100/200. I have played the 100/200 game in gbg a few times. Great game!!