Downswing hand # 1 [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

PugX

05-14-2005, 04:46 AM

Hi guys!

I belive I'm in a downswing, but I dont know for sure because I recently moved up to the 2-4 games. A downswing is ok for me, to be a losing player is not. So i feel a need to test some hands in this forum.

Backround in this hand is that sb is a LAG. After 40 hands he have 58 vpp 18 pfr. He was pushing rather hard postflop. Please comment my play.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP1 ($388.60)
Hero ($441)
MP3 ($417.40)
CO ($102.40)
Button ($118.20)
SB ($449.30)
BB ($379.75)
UTG ($181.40)
UTG+1 ($742.80)
UTG+2 ($190)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG+1 calls $4, 2 folds, Hero raises to $12, 3 folds, SB calls $10, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $8.

Flop: ($40) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $40, SB raises to $80, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $40.

Turn: ($200) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB bets $200, Hero calls $200.

River: ($600) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets $157.3 (All-In), Hero calls $149 (All-In).

Final Pot: $906.30
Main Pot: $898, between Hero and SB. > Pot won by SB ($898).
Pot 2: $8.29, returned to SB.

Results in white below: 
SB has Qd Ts (two pair, queens and tens).
UTG has (two pair, queens and tens).
Hero has Ac Ah (one pair, aces).
Outcome: SB wins $906.29.

hotdog da 2rd

05-14-2005, 05:08 AM

fold turn. unless sb has ah-10h, compared bet size to his stack, i don't see him pushing anything here.

foldem

05-14-2005, 05:50 AM

You need to raise it more preflop. You are giving too good of implied odds if you are willing to stack off with AA when the limper plays back at you.

What range of hands did you put the limper on when he played back at you? I would certainly think 22 or TT were very possible. I think your call of the flop raise is fine, but without a good read I don't think you can call when he fires out a pot sized bet on the turn.

KaneKungFu123

05-14-2005, 05:56 AM

i dont play the 2/4 game but I think a 3BB with AA is too small, especially if you arent going to get away from your hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Hi guys!

I belive I'm in a downswing, but I dont know for sure because I recently moved up to the 2-4 games. A downswing is ok for me, to be a losing player is not. So i feel a need to test some hands in this forum.

Backround in this hand is that sb is a LAG. After 40 hands he have 58 vpp 18 pfr. He was pushing rather hard postflop. Please comment my play.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP1 ($388.60)
Hero ($441)
MP3 ($417.40)
CO ($102.40)
Button ($118.20)
SB ($449.30)
BB ($379.75)
UTG ($181.40)
UTG+1 ($742.80)
UTG+2 ($190)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG+1 calls $4, 2 folds, Hero raises to $12, 3 folds, SB calls $10, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $8.

Flop: ($40) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $40, SB raises to $80, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $40.

Turn: ($200) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB bets $200, Hero calls $200.

River: ($600) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB bets $157.3 (All-In), Hero calls $149 (All-In).

Final Pot: $906.30
Main Pot: $898, between Hero and SB. > Pot won by SB ($898).
Pot 2: $8.29, returned to SB.

Results in white below: 
SB has Qd Ts (two pair, queens and tens).
UTG has (two pair, queens and tens).
Hero has Ac Ah (one pair, aces).
Outcome: SB wins $906.29. 

[/ QUOTE ]

PugX

05-14-2005, 06:10 AM

In fact I put him on alot of possible hands. A person with statistics like that can have a killer hand at the flop or AQ or Q7 or making a total bluff.

I only dont know if I had + expected value in this situation.

//Pug

JihadOnTheRiver

05-14-2005, 06:23 AM

The biggest problem with your line is that you obviously decided at some point that you're going to call down no help, no matter what. That is probably the wrong line to take. Take a read and say "I'm ahead" or "I'm behind". You didn't do that, but you should at least respect that RETARDED min. raise. Who Min. Raises? Seriously? That's a monster. I would even suspect trips...

-Durka

creedofhubris

05-14-2005, 06:52 AM

Someone posted a while back that if you folded every time you were minraised it would be +EV.

Obviously this suggestion is too general, but dumping all your one-pair hands when minraised may not be a bad move. It's the donkey's way of telling you he has you beat.

-Skeme-

05-14-2005, 06:55 AM

Fold turn. He check-minraised you, that's usually a set or at least two pair. Without improvement on the turn I'm folding.

Komodo

05-14-2005, 08:27 AM

<blockquote>Svar till:<hr />
Someone posted a while back that if you folded every time you were minraised it would be +EV.

Obviously this suggestion is too general, but dumping all your one-pair hands when minraised may not be a bad move. It's the donkey's way of telling you he has you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if im wrong, but cant a mini raise mean a hand like AQ, KQ or even AT too?

creedofhubris

05-14-2005, 08:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someone posted a while back that if you folded every time you were minraised it would be +EV.

Obviously this suggestion is too general, but dumping all your one-pair hands when minraised may not be a bad move. It's the donkey's way of telling you he has you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if im wrong, but cant a mini raise mean a hand like AQ, KQ or even AT too?

[/ QUOTE ]

In theory.

But it mostly means "nyah nyah, I've got you crushed."

xorbie

05-14-2005, 08:42 AM

It could mean something like that, but the potsize lead out on turn doesn't.

MTBlue

05-14-2005, 11:41 AM

How does the villain plays his one pair hands? The minraise is very scary and annoying as hell and for most players mean a monster. Unless donk is check min-raising q7 or aq then I'm folding. Btw if you want to put 450 in on AA raise more than 12 preflop.

LuvDemNutz

05-14-2005, 11:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think a 3BB with AA is too small, especially if you arent going to get away from your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, the flop checkraise and the pot-sized turn bet are a pretty good indication you are beat. Not saying this is an easy fold by any means but it's certainly a make-able fold.

-Skeme-

05-14-2005, 11:51 AM

I would say it's pretty damn easy.