Someone suggested I limp UTG with AQ

[DavidC]

What do I do if, afterwards, a typical player raises?

[wtfsvi]

I suppose that depends on what range of hand you put the "typical" raiser on. Along with others in the pot, position relative to the raiser.

I think default should be fold though.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose that depends on what range of hand you put the "typical" raiser on. Along with others in the pot, position relative to the raiser.

I think default should be fold though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and stacks and all that. But makes sense. Thanks.

[IbrakeFORrivers]

Then you have a slight advantage b/c you know what he has. If you want to pay more, re-raise him to test out further what he has.

The only time this backfires is if, of course, he has a better hand

Another time it won't work is if, for example say it's just you and him, he's SB you're BB, he thinks no one has anything, bluffs, and bets big to push you out, it doesn't work b/c you have A Q so you call, then he draws some miracle draw on the river with a small-blind special that renders your AQ helpless.
Which is why it's better to bet the A Q out most of the time. THen you'd know for the most part, that if he didn't have a good hand, he'd fold preflop and wouldn't be around to catch those miracle cards on the flop.

You could go into like 10 levels of reverse psychology. But i've had the most success betting out my good hands.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
Then you have a slight advantage b/c you know what he has. If you want to pay more, re-raise him to test out further what he has.

The only time this backfires is if, of course, he has a better hand

Another time it won't work is if, for example say it's just you and him, he's SB you're BB, he thinks no one has anything, bluffs, and bets big to push you out, it doesn't work b/c you have A Q so you call, then he draws some miracle draw on the river with a small-blind special that renders your AQ helpless.
Which is why it's better to bet the A Q out most of the time. THen you'd know for the most part, that if he didn't have a good hand, he'd fold preflop and wouldn't be around to catch those miracle cards on the flop.

You could go into like 10 levels of reverse psychology. But i've had the most success betting out my good hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, we're no where near the river yet.

[DavidC]

I will say that I've had the most success with this hand betting out, but small sample size both ways.

This is likely because I have no idea how to control the pot size and therefore it's tough for me to play TPTK against like 6 opponents. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[wtfsvi]

Aren't you a full-ring player? I think I would much rather fold AQo than raise in EP under most conditions. I would much rather limp it than fold it though.

(And to your initial question: I will seldom call the raise. Either reraise or fold. But that's not quite conventional perhaps.)

[Malachii]

AQ offsuit under the gun in a full ring game is a get broke hand in my opinion. You're much more likely to lose a big pot than to win one with it. Therefore, I would fold it preflop. If it is sooted, I'll limp with it.

[IbrakeFORrivers]

[ QUOTE ]
I will say that I've had the most success with this hand betting out, but small sample size both ways.

This is likely because I have no idea how to control the pot size and therefore it's tough for me to play TPTK against like 6 opponents. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah. true.
maybe fold then. Wait for a monster, which might get you a good table image, (not saying you don't have one already /images/graemlins/smile.gif) and then they'll fold to your raises.
I don't know. I might not be right though, seriously. I think i've said my piece, now i'll sit back with you and let the experts take this one over /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[WSOPwinner10]

D

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
What do I do if, afterwards, a typical player raises?

[/ QUOTE ]
typically, you fold.

[ryanghall]

I'd suggest it, too.

Limp it and fold to a raise. AQ is a trouble hand in NL that can quickly become a -EV hand for a lot of people, especially when they're raising it out of position or calling raises with it.

Try to win small pots with this hand.

Ryan

[ryanghall]

I should add that in small stakes No Limit Hold'em, folding AQo UTG and UTG+1 in full ring is certainly not awful, and will likely save money for the majority of players.

[Marcotte]

[ QUOTE ]
I should add that in small stakes No Limit Hold'em, folding AQo UTG and UTG+1 in full ring is certainly not awful, and will likely save money for the majority of players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Online, yes. But not in low buyin live games. At least not the $100 buyin at Commerce. A good post flop player is losing money by not limping with AQo in EP there. (With most tables; there are a few good players.)

[creedofhubris]

You should fold, unless it's a minraise, which doesn't count as a raise. Those you should call.

If villain is a loose moron, you can reraise to try to isolate him.

In general, you should be folding AQo to stuff bigger than a min-raise, unless villain is a donkey that you want to reraise, in which case you should do that. Smooth calling with AQ is bad.

[AdamL]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do I do if, afterwards, a typical player raises?

[/ QUOTE ]
typically, you fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Jeez, if I had AJs and it was limped to me I'd raise. If I had KQs I'd raise. If I had KJs I'd raise. If I had ATs I'd raise. Well, you get the point. Most players don't need AA,KK,QQ or AK to raise - lol.

You call, use the information. I'd only fold against a rock.

[wdeadwyler]

This only applies to a full table right? 6max AQ is a great hand. Or so i thought...

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
This only applies to a full table right? 6max AQ is a great hand. Or so i thought...

[/ QUOTE ]

In 6-max, you should be raising AQo UTG every time, so it's not an issue.

[Tuben]

Never limp whit AQ unbelivable even thinking about it .
If you are in first position.

[xorbie]

[ QUOTE ]
Never limp whit AQ unbelivable even thinking about it .
If you are in first position.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not unbelievable at all.

Limping hands which make TPTK in EP is a very good way to disguise your hand when you do hit and get action from later players.

I limp AQo UTG as my default play in full ring and if nobody raises my default is often to check/raise a nice enough flop.

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd suggest it, too.

Limp it and fold to a raise. AQ is a trouble hand in NL that can quickly become a -EV hand for a lot of people, especially when they're raising it out of position or calling raises with it.

Try to win small pots with this hand.

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif I have NO idea how to do this. If I win a small pot, it's because my opponent folded.

[creedofhubris]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd suggest it, too.

Limp it and fold to a raise. AQ is a trouble hand in NL that can quickly become a -EV hand for a lot of people, especially when they're raising it out of position or calling raises with it.

Try to win small pots with this hand.

Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif I have NO idea how to do this. If I win a small pot, it's because my opponent folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Start by limping preflop.
Continue by leading out if you hit, not check/raising.
Finish by checking the river if you have one pair.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What do I do if, afterwards, a typical player raises?

[/ QUOTE ]
typically, you fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Jeez, if I had AJs and it was limped to me I'd raise. If I had KQs I'd raise. If I had KJs I'd raise. If I had ATs I'd raise. Well, you get the point. Most players don't need AA,KK,QQ or AK to raise - lol.

You call, use the information. I'd only fold against a rock.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are not a typical player. And you won't win playing like that unless your hand reading is extremely good and/or you're playing against terrible players. Better players will be trapping you and putting you to difficult decisions because you are creating big pots with dominated trash hands. Hands like ATs and KJs are in very poor shape against the typical range of limping hands for a solid EP player.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
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What do I do if, afterwards, a typical player raises?

[/ QUOTE ]
typically, you fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Jeez, if I had AJs and it was limped to me I'd raise. If I had KQs I'd raise. If I had KJs I'd raise. If I had ATs I'd raise. Well, you get the point. Most players don't need AA,KK,QQ or AK to raise - lol.

You call, use the information. I'd only fold against a rock.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are not a typical player. And you won't win playing like that unless your hand reading is extremely good and/or you're playing against terrible players. Better players will be trapping you and putting you to difficult decisions because you are creating big pots with dominated trash hands. Hands like ATs and KJs are in very poor shape against the typical range of limping hands for a solid EP player.

[/ QUOTE ]
What? This is honestly the most weak-tight post I have ever seen from you. Most solid players do NOT limp UTG with hands that dominate KQs. And for 6m, this guy's LP raising standards DO seem fairly typical. Which is why if you limp AQ UTG you should call a late position raise. You are the one trapping the late position player who is raising light. Exactly as you said. People will raise KQ in late position so you must call in EP with AQ and trap them. The only reason to limp AQ UTG, IMO, is to call a late position raise. If you're going to fold to a raise, just raise yourself. It's ridiculous to not want to play AQ UTG even if it can be hard to play when you flop TPQK or TPTK OOP. It is a profitable, if difficult, situation.

[DavidC]

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What do I do if, afterwards, a typical player raises?

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typically, you fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Jeez, if I had AJs and it was limped to me I'd raise. If I had KQs I'd raise. If I had KJs I'd raise. If I had ATs I'd raise. Well, you get the point. Most players don't need AA,KK,QQ or AK to raise - lol.

You call, use the information. I'd only fold against a rock.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are not a typical player. And you won't win playing like that unless your hand reading is extremely good and/or you're playing against terrible players. Better players will be trapping you and putting you to difficult decisions because you are creating big pots with dominated trash hands. Hands like ATs and KJs are in very poor shape against the typical range of limping hands for a solid EP player.

[/ QUOTE ]
What? This is honestly the most weak-tight post I have ever seen from you. Most solid players do NOT limp UTG with hands that dominate KQs. And for 6m, this guy's LP raising standards DO seem fairly typical. Which is why if you limp AQ UTG you should call a late position raise. You are the one trapping the late position player who is raising light. Exactly as you said. People will raise KQ in late position so you must call in EP with AQ and trap them. The only reason to limp AQ UTG, IMO, is to call a late position raise. If you're going to fold to a raise, just raise yourself. It's ridiculous to not want to play AQ UTG even if it can be hard to play when you flop TPQK or TPTK OOP. It is a profitable, if difficult, situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm talking about full ring in this post. Sorry I didn't specify that. Adam's aware of this, but I don't know about everyone else. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Edit: Sweet use of TPQK. Currently I use TPTK, TPGK, TPMK, TPBK, and sometimes TPNK. (Good, medium, bad, no-)

I may incorporate this into my notes. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

--Dave.

[soah]

This thread has nothing to do with six-max, and if you're raising EP limpers with AT and KJ then you are doing it to try to steal the pot, because solid EP limpers have those hands beaten just about always. You think decent players are going to be limping in EP with A9 and KT with any frequency?

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
This thread has nothing to do with six-max, and if you're raising EP limpers with AT and KJ then you are doing it to try to steal the pot, because solid EP limpers have those hands beaten just about always. You think decent players are going to be limping in EP with A9 and KT with any frequency?

[/ QUOTE ]
How about 88 and JTs? And someone else mentioned 6m so I wasn't sure which was being talked about. But people will raise light in late position full ring, too.

[VarlosZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Sweet use of TPQK. Currently I use TPTK, TPGK, TPMK, TPBK, and sometimes TPNK. (Good, medium, bad, no-)

I may incorporate this into my notes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hijack: You may want to consider TP2K ('2' meaning 2nd), as 'Q' could be 2nd or 3rd kicker, depending. I use TPTK, TP2K, TPmK, TPwK, and TPnK (no kicker). The last three are used somewhat interchangeably.