my first hand post in a while... (215)

[Apathy]

Comments on any streets welcome, but if you comment on the hand give your reasons for any decisions you would make differently then the ones I did.



NL Hold'em $200 Buy-in + $15 Entry Fee Trny:12171842 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Friday, May 13, 14:37:46 EDT 2005
Table Table 10897 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: blaydzfsteel ( $1270 )
Seat 2: kcasey33 ( $560 )
Seat 3: bos256 ( $625 )
Seat 4: bekkedahl ( $820 )
Seat 5: illgutyou ( $1670 )
Seat 6: VcH1610 ( $1535 )
Seat 7: ComeOnPhish ( $765 )
Seat 8: fci16 ( $980 )
Seat 9: HHumbert ( $900 )
Seat 10: Moookie ( $875 )

Trny:12171842 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to blaydzfsteel [ Ah Jd ]
kcasey33 did not respond in time.
kcasey33 folds.
bos256 folds.
bekkedahl calls [30].
illgutyou folds.
VcH1610 folds.
ComeOnPhish folds.
fci16 folds.
HHumbert folds.
Moookie folds.
blaydzfsteel checks.


** Dealing Flop ** [ 6d, 3h, As ]
blaydzfsteel bets [60].
bekkedahl raises [175].
blaydzfsteel calls [115].


** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
blaydzfsteel checks.
bekkedahl is all-In [615]
blaydzfsteel calls [615].

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
Comments on any streets welcome, but if you comment on the hand give your reasons for any decisions you would make differently then the ones I did.



NL Hold'em $200 Buy-in + $15 Entry Fee Trny:12171842 Level:2 Blinds(15/30) - Friday, May 13, 14:37:46 EDT 2005
Table Table 10897 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: blaydzfsteel ( $1270 )
Seat 2: kcasey33 ( $560 )
Seat 3: bos256 ( $625 )
Seat 4: bekkedahl ( $820 )
Seat 5: illgutyou ( $1670 )
Seat 6: VcH1610 ( $1535 )
Seat 7: ComeOnPhish ( $765 )
Seat 8: fci16 ( $980 )
Seat 9: HHumbert ( $900 )
Seat 10: Moookie ( $875 )

Trny:12171842 Level:2
Blinds(15/30)

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to blaydzfsteel [ Ah Jd ]
kcasey33 did not respond in time.
kcasey33 folds.
bos256 folds.
bekkedahl calls [30].
illgutyou folds.
VcH1610 folds.
ComeOnPhish folds.
fci16 folds.
HHumbert folds.
Moookie folds.
blaydzfsteel checks.


** Dealing Flop ** [ 6d, 3h, As ]
blaydzfsteel bets [60].
bekkedahl raises [175].
blaydzfsteel calls [115].


** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
blaydzfsteel checks.
bekkedahl is all-In [615]
blaydzfsteel calls [615].

[/ QUOTE ]


this post is exactly why i avoid aj like the plague from ep...but your in the blinds. i like a check raise on the flop other wise, i fold the turn.

[UMTerp]

[ QUOTE ]
other wise, i fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why, what's he behind here? I think a set generally goes a little slower here. And I can't imagine limping a big ace. I'd expect to be shown something like 77 or 88.

If villain beat you with anything other than 66 or AA, I think he played it poorly. Lately, I've seen some limp-reraises with AK at the higher levels too. Personally, I hate that line with AK, but I guess that's a possibility as well.

I think you played the hand very well. Love the turn check.

[Phil Van Sexton]

I'll often check this drawless flop and let him bluff off his stack.

Your play of betting the flop and checking the turn probably accomplishes the same thing, I guess.

It would be tough to get away from this hand at a 215 without some kind of read.

[Unarmed]

Hey Apathy, do bet the flop often here with air? If not I don't see the point in leading as it makes the hand considerably more difficult to play. I'd play the AJ for value here and let him donate as much money as he wants.

EDIT: NH Phil

[Pokerscott]

He limped from early position. That usually means (it may mean more hands if the table is allowing limpers):

AA KK QQ
AQ
Ax suited
Low PP

On the flop this guy reraised you and on the turn he went all-in. He could definitely be sensing your weakness (given the turn check), but I think he is letting you know he has you beat.

My guess is he has 2 pair with Ax. He might be trying to protect a set from a flush draw, but the bet is really too big for that.

I guess he could also have a flush draw and is semi-bluffing, but that is a lot of wishing to put all your chips in for.

I think you got to give this up given the way it was played.

Pokerscott

[durron597]

I really don't see him playing a set this fast, and I highly doubt he would limp with AK/AQ. Thus I think you know you have the best hand after the flop. The turn check is a great way to get him to bluff all his chips off with 88.

Very well played IMO.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I think he has KK-TT/88 and he's trying to get you to fold a weak ace.

[Voltron87]

I think I like it, without reads/other stuff.

[The Student]

[ QUOTE ]
He limped from early position. That usually means (it may mean more hands if the table is allowing limpers):

AA KK QQ
AQ
Ax suited
Low PP

On the flop this guy reraised you and on the turn he went all-in. He could definitely be sensing your weakness (given the turn check), but I think he is letting you know he has you beat.

My guess is he has 2 pair with Ax.
I think you got to give this up given the way it was played.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're giving the villian too much credit here. If he has trip aces, then he probably wouldn't be raising you on the flop. the only thing i'd be worried about here is A/Q or a set of 6s - both of which definitely could play the hand this way. Without any reads on the opponent, though, i call this down because the push on the turn, as opposed to a smaller bet, seems to be a scared bet trying to muscle you out of the pot. i call and hope to see some crap like A/10s.

ts-

[raptor517]

wow he played that hand hard. sheesh, i dont even know what the hell he is about to turn over? A10 maybe? hmm. i hate AJ.. but for some reason i think you are ahead here.. holla

[The Student]

hey apathy -

i think your line is okay as long as you make the decision on the flop that you think you have a stronger ace than the opponent. have you seen the opponent play weak aces? if so, i think the bet on the flop and then calling his raise is okay as long as you know you're going to showdown the hand. then the check-call of the push makes sense.

but, if you think there's a possibility that the villian may play A/Q this way (or A/K but I think that's less likely on a PF limp), then I'm not sure I like you're call of the flop raise and definitely don't like the push call on the turn. as another poster already said, it's hand like this that are tricky to play. personally, i prefer to avoid tricky situations like this in the early rounds - playing a marginal ace OOP, so i'd probably fold to the flop raise. however, if i did call the flop raise, i'd then bet out on the turn and because i want to see if his flop raise was just positional. if raised on the turn, however, i'd fold it. but then again, that's without any reads.

ts-

[UMTerp]

I have a real hard time putting the opponent on Ax here... how many $215ers limp A-rag from up front?? It wouldn't shock me if he got lucky and turned a set either. Though most players son't shove their whole stack in like that when they pick up a monster (even though it probably disguises their hand better).

RESULTS!!

[Degen]

ick

i don't play at your level so prolly just ignore this, but at the 55's or 33's i fold on the flop...its like in Giga's thread w/ that Q9o hand, he's threatening all your chips with only a portion of his stack-and i'm not looking to risk my whole tourney early on, with the off chance this guy is getting crazy w/ A9.


and if you are gonna call him all in anyway...why not reraise that flop and possibly get him to fold?


Andre

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
and if you are gonna call him all in anyway...why not reraise that flop and possibly get him to fold?


[/ QUOTE ]

Because he wants Villian's stack?

[Elektrik]

I like it against bekkedahl.

He raises AQ and AK, but not AJ so you're set there.

Two pair is a strong possiblity for him (A6s + A3s) but of course 1 pair is more likely, and he'd play it the same.

I like the bet/call check/call line, as I think it extracts the most from this player.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
I like it against bekkedahl.

He raises AQ and AK, but not AJ so you're set there.

Two pair is a strong possiblity for him (A6s + A3s) but of course 1 pair is more likely, and he'd play it the same.

I like the bet/call check/call line, as I think it extracts the most from this player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, those are my thoughts too, and the reasons for taking the line I did. When I'm raised on the flop on a board without draws I have trouble putting bekkedahl on a hand I don't beat, With a set he would certaintly just call and may also slowplay A-rag two pair.

Only one person suggested reraising the flop. I really don't like that because my opponent has very few outs if I am ahead and I only get called by better hands.

I know some people check here against most opponents especially the irie-guys ( /images/graemlins/wink.gif) but I think that is a mistake, especially at this level. Thanks for the comments everyone. I think UMTerp and Elektrik had the best guesses at the opponents hand, it was 99 and I was dead on the turn /images/graemlins/mad.gif but I'm sure he wouldve pushed or at least bet most other turns.

[microbet]

Without knowing the player, I like your play. Why doesn't he raise preflop with AQ or AK? Why does he push the turn with 2 pair or trips and a fairly non-threatening board?

If he has 2-pair, does he play A2 or A6 preflop?

He may of course have you beat (A9?), but my first guess would be not.

[Pokerscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Without knowing the player, I like your play. Why doesn't he raise preflop with AQ or AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

There were lots of threads recently discussing the benefit of limping early with AQ vs. many opponents. Of course if you know the person raises with AQ early that is different /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Pokerscott

[microbet]

There have been threads, but I think it is a fair assumption that a non-2+2'er at any buyin will generally raise with AK or AQ.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
other wise, i fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why, what's he behind here? I think a set generally goes a little slower here. And I can't imagine limping a big ace. I'd expect to be shown something like 77 or 88.

If villain beat you with anything other than 66 or AA, I think he played it poorly. Lately, I've seen some limp-reraises with AK at the higher levels too. Personally, I hate that line with AK, but I guess that's a possibility as well.

I think you played the hand very well. Love the turn check.

[/ QUOTE ]

ill tell you exactly why i take this line....while i tend to be very affluent in reading people in a live game after about 2-3 times around the table, i am very weak (as i suspect virtually all players are) at knowing the tendencys of an unknown player who has been at your (online) table for less than 15 hands (which is a necesarry skill when playing multi street nlhe). When you add in the fact that later on in the game i will be able to win a similar amount of chips with a much easier decision, i think my line holds water. Simply put, my edge is not big enough here.

[adanthar]

I like every street. Too bad he hit.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like it against bekkedahl.

He raises AQ and AK, but not AJ so you're set there.

Two pair is a strong possiblity for him (A6s + A3s) but of course 1 pair is more likely, and he'd play it the same.

I like the bet/call check/call line, as I think it extracts the most from this player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, those are my thoughts too, and the reasons for taking the line I did. When I'm raised on the flop on a board without draws I have trouble putting bekkedahl on a hand I don't beat, With a set he would certaintly just call and may also slowplay A-rag two pair.

Only one person suggested reraising the flop. I really don't like that because my opponent has very few outs if I am ahead and I only get called by better hands.

I know some people check here against most opponents especially the irie-guys ( /images/graemlins/wink.gif) but I think that is a mistake, especially at this level. Thanks for the comments everyone. I think UMTerp and Elektrik had the best guesses at the opponents hand, it was 99 and I was dead on the turn /images/graemlins/mad.gif but I'm sure he wouldve pushed or at least bet most other turns.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know its your first hand post in a while, but tradionally we include reads with the hand, not with the results. Not that it mattered too much against a set here.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
I know its your first hand post in a while, but tradionally we include reads with the hand, not with the results. Not that it mattered too much against a set here.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I said

[ QUOTE ]
I have trouble putting bekkedahl on a hand I don't beat, With a set he would certaintly just call and may also slowplay A-rag two pair.


[/ QUOTE ]

I understand I implied that I felt that about HIM specifically but that isn't what I meant. My 'read' was just an experienced based one rather then information about this specific player, poorly worded, my bad.

My only note on him said 'limps marginal hands lev 5+' which basically means he's a total fish but that wasn't very relevant to this hand since he wouldnt have limped 36 anyways and nobody was ruling A-rag out as a possibility.