Bottom set, raised pot. Did I extract the max?

[imported_anacardo]

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

(Not many reads here. Button's pretty aggro.)

UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, Button calls, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, Button folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.
(Looks like my kind of flop. With the early bettor and caller, I think the chances for a flush draw are high; raise into the button hoping he likes his hand enough to call or threebet. The cap behind me suggests TP + fourflush to me, or a similarly strong draw.)

Turn: (13.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

(Blank, so we bet on.)
River: (16.75 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

(Not liking the looks of this river. Not sure if I should have bet it &amp; folded to a raise...)
Final Pot: 16.75 BB

Should I have waited until the turn to go crazygonuts? Should I have bet that river? My trembling heart eagerly awaits reply...

[afk]

I think it was fine until you checked the river. Bet the river and call a check-raise.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it was fine until you checked the river. Bet the river and call a check-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Roybert]

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I think it was fine until you checked the river. Bet the river and call a check-raise.

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Yup.

[toss]

Going crazy on the flop here is fine.

[Pablo]

I'd play it just like you did. The call-reraise on the flop screams flush draw to me, since an OESD isn't possible. Especially after he checked the turn.

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
The call-reraise on the flop screams flush draw to me,

[/ QUOTE ]

What player read makes you think this? The vast majority of players do NOT pump flush draws. Given that hero did not include reads, I'm not giving credit for a flush draw.

[Pablo]

It's not so much a player read as an action read. Unless he's just a maniac, a call-reraise against multiple players followed by a check on the turn tells me flush or OES draw.

Are there other situations where a player may do that?

[MrWookie47]

Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.

That's for the kittens killed by the river check.

[Buckmulligan]

Wow, you have to bet that river. I think a nice AT, AJ, A9ish hands are more likely to be out there on the river than a diamond draw, especially after it's checked on the river.
I know you would call a bet on the river with that diamond falling, and you would probably do it expecting to win some return. Why, then, would you not bet this when it's checked to you, perhaps folding if it's raised back?

[kiddj]

[ QUOTE ]
Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine, et lux perpetua luceat eis.

That's for the kittens killed by the river check.

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not so much a player read as an action read. Unless he's just a maniac, a call-reraise against multiple players followed by a check on the turn tells me flush or OES draw.

Are there other situations where a player may do that?

[/ QUOTE ]


Sure. MP2 may have flopped two-pair with A7 or K7 and I've seen hands like Ace-little kicker played like this by maniacs. Heck, I've even seen QJ played that way. I'm just saying that the original poster didn't give us any reads. I don't like narrowly putting him on a flush draw without any additional information. It's certainly possible he has a flush draw and we can't discount that, I just generally don't like assuming a flush draw and only a flush draw in a spot like this.

[Pablo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's not so much a player read as an action read. Unless he's just a maniac, a call-reraise against multiple players followed by a check on the turn tells me flush or OES draw.

Are there other situations where a player may do that?

[/ QUOTE ]


Sure. MP2 may have flopped two-pair with A7 or K7 and I've seen hands like Ace-little kicker played like this by maniacs. Heck, I've even seen QJ played that way. I'm just saying that the original poster didn't give us any reads. I don't like narrowly putting him on a flush draw without any additional information. It's certainly possible he has a flush draw and we can't discount that, I just generally don't like assuming a flush draw and only a flush draw in a spot like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your point is well taken. I just discounted him playing 2 pair like this. You'd think he'd try to protect his hand by just raising on the flop, wouldn't you? And if he had 2 pair, why wouldn't he bet on the turn?

[afk]

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You'd think he'd try to protect his hand by just raising on the flop, wouldn't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. You're giving him too much credit for skill. He's an unknown, and most unknows at this limit play pretty poorly. They slowplay too often, or they're too aggressive with junk etc...

[ QUOTE ]
And if he had 2 pair, why wouldn't he bet on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because hero capping the flop probably scared him down into calling.

[imported_anacardo]

Everyone castigating me for the river check gets a gold star.

UTG+2 shows AT for aces w/ ten kicker.
MP1, "Capper," shows a spectacularly donked-out A2 for aces w/ deuce kicker.
Hero produces the set &amp; takes that shizzle down.

In the words of Mr. Dan Fogelberg: Lessons learned? They're like bridges burned. You only need to cross them but once.

[BatsShadow]

Grunching:

I would bet/call the river.

[BatsShadow]

If check-raised you'd be getting about 19:1. I think folding a set just to the scare of a flush is not a very good idea.

Do other people fold sets? I only fold a set if the board is double-paired, 4-flushed, or other similar horrors.

[MrWookie47]

If you never folded a set for 1 bet (or 1 more bet) on the river, you'd be making a very, very small mistake, if it's even a mistake at all. Whet it's two or more bets to you, you can consider folding.

[Shillx]

Err this hand looks okay. Maybe you could bet and fold to a check/raise from MP2, but betting and calling a check/raise is just dumping chips imo.

Brad

[gopnik]

Flop play is fine. Flush draw can go crazy with you on the flop but slow done on a blank turn.
I'd probably check the river too, but I don't think that's right. Working on my value betting. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
Err this hand looks okay. Maybe you could bet and fold to a check/raise from MP2, but betting and calling a check/raise is just dumping chips imo.

Brad

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Really? I dunno man. I think I just have to flat out disagree with you on this. With a better read (or a read at all) on these opponents I may be able to find a check behind or a bet/fold.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Err this hand looks okay. Maybe you could bet and fold to a check/raise from MP2, but betting and calling a check/raise is just dumping chips imo.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

Chicken! I think you're looking at A-rag and K-rag, respectively, maybe the rags are /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Bet/call this river; bet/3-bet if you've got a nutball read on the villans (which it looks as though you might).

[gasoltub]

Am I the only one that would have called the UTG+2 bet on the flop expecting button to raise? Then, if we are lucky UTG+2 will 3-bet. And if UTG+2 doesn't 3-bet we can do it instead.
And also, I don't think I would cap the flop if it was 3-bet before me to increase the chances of being bet into on the turn and being able to raise there.

I would also bet the river and call a single raise.

comments?

[imported_anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that would have called the UTG+2 bet on the flop expecting button to raise? Then, if we are lucky UTG+2 will 3-bet. And if UTG+2 doesn't 3-bet we can do it instead.
And also, I don't think I would cap the flop if it was 3-bet before me to increase the chances of being bet into on the turn and being able to raise there.

I would also bet the river and call a single raise.

comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is precisely the sort of thing I was wondering. In the heat of the moment, it came down in my eyes to the donk-RR. "This guy's pumping a big draw, and I want to charge him the maximum." I think it likely that this immediate conclusion points out any number of errors in my process of on-the-spot analysis. It's been a mediocre month; I think I'm starting to fear the worst ("worst") far too often. Comments?

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that would have called the UTG+2 bet on the flop expecting button to raise? Then, if we are lucky UTG+2 will 3-bet. And if UTG+2 doesn't 3-bet we can do it instead.
And also, I don't think I would cap the flop if it was 3-bet before me to increase the chances of being bet into on the turn and being able to raise there.

I would also bet the river and call a single raise.

comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

oh heh, I didn't really pay attention to that. I might still raise though. Not sure. Sometimes raises chicken out when there's been a bet and a bunch of calls ahead of them. Though I think calling to re-raise is ok.