Prop Player on Internet: Need Comments

[mdlm]

I have been doing a little research into prop playing on the internet and the deals seem to be amazing. They are so amazing that I assume that they must be too good to be true.

I'd like comments.

Here are some typical deals:

- Typical deal is the one offered by InterCasino: They pay $10/hr up to 2 hrs if you move to a table that they would like you to move to.

- Another typical deal is shown at http://pokerprop.vcpoker.com/detail.php. At $1-$2 they pay $10 per 100 hands. At 0.25-0.50 your rake is refunded.

-Yet another typical deal is at http://www.pokerprop.com/ (America's Card Room). It says "up to $12/hr" and it says that you can select your games.

As I said, I find these deals incredible. The pay is at least 1 BB/hr. I understand that the prop player may not be playing at his ideal table but 1+ BB/hr makes up for a lot of leaks...

Has anyone tried this? What are the pitfalls?

[lorinda]

Sounds like hard work to me.

$10 an hour, only if there's a game, playing games you don't like and having the other players think you are a cheat.

You have to use your own money too, so if it goes wrong you are out of work!!

You are committed to one site, (depending on how good your pc is, but you sure can't upset anyone or neglect your prop site) so whilst people are telling you how bad the fish are elsewhere, you are stuck on a table that you hate having to be polite to idiots.

On the upside, it is likely you will get to practise pretty much for free and earn some money in the process, but it is somewhat of a bind.

Notice that the sites asking for props, almost by definition, are the ones that have low traffic, so 100 hands could take a long time, and $12 per hour , (I assume it's per hour actual play) could be three hours waiting and one hour playing.

I think it requires a certain mindset, I for one don't have it.
Perhaps Justice4all could shed light on the upsides of this, I believe he enjoys it and does well out of it.

Lori

[CreamPuff]

If you don't mind being told when and where to play
(what table...) then there are NO pitfalls.

You'll be ahead of 80% of the field at your level.
There is nothing wrong with propping B&M or internet.

Comments ? Okay:

Listen - gambling is one of the dirtiest businesses in the world. It reeks of human desperation, greed, and regret - it is an edifice built on broken dreams. When you open the door into a dark place, don't be surprised to find darkness. As long as you gamble (yes, poker is gambling), you will have to sit next to addicts, whores, criminals, and - the subject of this messsage - props. I have seen props in wheelchairs, props who looked like frail old ladies, props who look barely old enough to get in the room, and various other incarnations of people who come there with the intention of *getting your earned dollars through playing as a prop*. Yes, really. They are there, check raising a glossy-eyed gas station worker who gambles in the hopes of buying a gram of something decent, or in the hopes of raking in enough to sleep with the girl on Sunrise Poker, who turns tricks... and so on. They exploit the basest human frailty; well almost the basest, next to porn. These props are people who deserve their inevitable, and harsh, consequences, except for MS Sunshine, who has suffered enough. Look inside their eyes, and you will see pices of other peoples' broken hearts.

Props kidnapped the Lindberg baby, Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Earhart.

I do not like them here or there. I do not like them anywhere. I do not like them, Sam I am. I do not like green eggs and ham.

[lorinda]

That is one of the funniest posts I have ever read.

Lori

[beernutz]

So if I look to the left and to the right the next time I sit in a game and if there isn't an addict, a whore, or a criminal, I guess I'm it. Ted, even though you sound like Dr. Seuss on acid, I hope you register and continue to post if only for the humor value.

[MS Sunshine]

"These props are people who deserve their inevitable, and harsh, consequences, except for MS Sunshine, who has suffered enough."

No really, I haven't suffered enough yet.

MS Sunshine

I didn't know that.

What is the site for software download and registration???

[mdlm]

[Abe]

Ted---this is great. Who are you?

Register and post here some more.

You may even find some others posts to lampoon.

[kdog]

I agree with you CreamPuff,there is nothing wrong with propping.Actually,many of us function as short term props at times when chasing deposit bonuses(which many here do).Only real difference is you get to pick your games.

[GrannyMae]

There is nothing wrong with propping B&M or internet.

i'm not looking to pick a fight here CP, but i find this advice irresponsible without knowing the skills, BR and obligations that the original poster has in life.

i'll be the bad guy here & say that propping is NOT glamorous, is not easy, and for many people it could spell the end of every dollar you own. i know people that went bankrupt because of this job.

if you are attracted to the prop rate of $10, then i submit it is NOT a job for you.

being a cashier at a convenience store will pay almost as much, but you don't have to risk your money.

i submit that the only people in the world that a prop job would be ideally suited for are people that don't need the job. (i.e. it takes a GREAT player to be a GREAT prop)

this is a double edged sword that can't be classified as A-OK with generalizations.

how long have you been playing poker mdlm? tell us why this will fit into your life, and where you are with poker skills and your BR, and THEN we can give more informed advice.

maybe next time annie aldin comes through she will share her thoughts on propping. she made a GREAT post about it before the formats changed, and i can't seem to locate it to reprint it.

[MS Sunshine]

I'm just going to have fun with this post, no offense intended, but I'm looking at only from MY day-to-day experiences gambling on the internet.

Listen - gambling is one of the dirtiest businesses in the world. It reeks of human desperation, greed, and regret I love the smell of human desperation, it has a sweaty, musky smell, but you are right, poker is build on greed, that is why it works- it is an edifice built on broken dreams. Well Ted, it seems you are reaching here, the only visualization I'm getting is....well..... broken dreams getting screwed. When you open the door into a dark place, don't be surprised to find darkness. I can usually tell before I open the door, it's marked Omaha 8/B. As long as you gamble (yes, poker is gambling) not the way we do it., you will have to sit next to addicts What knid?, whores, criminals, and - the subject of this messsage - props. I'm pretty sure the whores resent being put in this group. I have seen props in wheelchairs, props who looked like frail old ladies, props who look barely old enough to get in the room, and various other incarnations of people who come there with the intention of *getting your earned dollars through playing as a prop*. Yes, really. Yes, really. They are there, check raising a glossy-eyed gas station worker who gambles in the hopes of buying a gram of something decent, or in the hopes of raking in enough to sleep with the girl on Sunrise Poker, who turns tricks... and so on. That's the problem with me shunning the small sites, I don't learn about all the different promotions until they are over. They exploit the basest human frailty Poor math? ; well almost the basest, next to porn. HELLO These props are people who deserve their inevitable, and harsh, consequences, except for MS Sunshine, who has suffered enough. Look inside their eyes, and you will see pieces of other peoples' broken hearts. and dreams, they taste the best. Yum.

Props kidnapped the Lindberg baby, Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Earhart. I admit that in Amelia's case, there was a prop nearby.

I do not like them here or there. I do not like them anywhere. I do not like them, Sam I am. I do not like green eggs and ham. Whoa, please put the whip cream canister down and step away from the computer, Ted

MS Sunshine

[GrannyMae]

Whoa, please put the whip cream canister down and step away from the computer


sssshhhh


send him MORE inhalants


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[HonestPete]

Hi MDLM,

firstly, nice post ted. If i didnt know better id say you were my mum, but alas, you aren't. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif

MDLM, I started propping coz i was attracted to the $10 per hour or whatever deal is on at whatever room, and shortly learned why they are offering that service. I have propped at quite a few sites, ACR, UB, VC... and I can tell you it is not easy and not safe money. The majority of the time you will be play shorthanded and that $10 / 100 hands will rarely do much, unless your lucky enough to have full games around yourself and be allowed to play them. Most sites require you then go and start another table, thus playing more shorthanded (and more variance within your BR).

Then, you have to consider whether you like being called a cheat everytime you win, and everytime you lose to idiots, morons, **** for brains you can't give any abuse, which they deserve, at least for self-anger release. Then, lets not forget the classic hit-n-run people whom no doubt originated and then migrated from paradise poker to all the nooks and cracks of this society of ours, they will sit and play a few hands with you, soon as they win a couple of pots they will leave. The most annoying thing is the frustration and not being able to do anything about it. Of course, if you tried doing that to someone youd lose your 'job'.

Then again, at the end of the week you do get a nice little pay check. Unfortunately its not always enough!

Before you become a prop, make sure it is exactly what you want, hours and hours of poker a day is enough to make anyone go crazy.

This is just my personal experience, and hopefully justice4all will also post on this, as hes more experienced so you ought to get a good picture.

keep us informed ony our decision mdlm.

HonestPete

[lorinda]

Before you become a prop, make sure it is exactly what you want, hours and hours of poker a day is enough to make anyone go crazy.

As a quick look at the regular posters here will reveal.

[justice4all]

If you want to be a prop players you must find a cardroom that you want to help grow and become your home. You must be willing to help other players. You cant get upset easily and must always try to create a freindly atmosphere.

If you dont think you can do all of the above dont become a prop.


I have found it to be great. I have been a prop at ACR for around 6 or 7 months now. I found it a little tough at the begining but now it is easy and i love it.

[GrannyMae]

Then, lets not forget the classic hit-n-run people whom no doubt originated and then migrated from paradise poker to all the nooks and cracks of this society of ours, they will sit and play a few hands with you, soon as they win a couple of pots they will leave


i know 3 people, one of whom is a regular 2+2er, that make a LIVING off props, and props only.

the method they use is the "prop hit & run".

these are EXPERT head-up players that target props. they have databases on every KNOWN prop out there that plays 3-6 and up. 99% of them are inferior to them HU, so they score a vast majority of the time.
(maybe that is why mike o'malley won't name his)

they can pluck certain props clean, and then they will come at you again with a new screenname in a month
(should you survive a month)

granny knows some vultures out there kiddo, and you will never know they are coming.

you may be a good ring player, but the talent of certain HU players would bedazzle you.


thx pete for making this ponit.

i am not saying mdml should not prop, i am just trying to point out some of the obstacles and realities..

gack

churchlady

[CreamPuff]

Certainly a much more detailed viewpoint than mine.

if you are attracted to the prop rate of $10, then i submit it is NOT a job for you.


A $1/$2 player making $10.00 per hr isn't bad.

I would never recommend someone quit their main job
and start propping. I never really considered he
might consider propping online fulltime.

But when your playing $1/$2 online in your spare time,
you don't have much to lose propping it in your spare
time.

[mdlm]

Justice,

Thx for response.

A couple of follow-on questions:
1. Does ACR let you restrict your play to certain limits (e.g., 2/4 and below)?
2. Is the ACR prop rate that I quoted in my original post (up to $12/hr) accurate? Can you give any more details on ACR's prop schedule?
3. The main issue raised by other responses to my post is that a prop has to learn to play short-handed and maybe even heads-up. What do you think of this? What has your experience been at ACR? What fraction of your prop time do you spend in games with 5 or fewer players? What books have you read and what things have you done to improve your short-handed/heads-up play?

[Jason Pohl]

I have a close friend who propped for ACR for a month or two.

1. Does ACR let you restrict your play to certain limits (e.g., 2/4 and below)?

No, but they only pay $2/4 or higher. And they pay more for $4/8.

2. Is the ACR prop rate that I quoted in my original post (up to $12/hr) accurate? Can you give any more details on ACR's prop schedule?

IMO, it is quoted too low in many circumstances. The actual payout is higher than $12/hour if you play multiple tables and play $4/8. It's based on # of hands...$.08 per hand of $2/4 and $.16 per hand of $4/8. That's not a bad deal at all.

3. The main issue raised by other responses to my post is that a prop has to learn to play short-handed and maybe even heads-up. What do you think of this? What has your experience been at ACR? What fraction of your prop time do you spend in games with 5 or fewer players? What books have you read and what things have you done to improve your short-handed/heads-up play?

The problem is that ACR (and I'd assume other sites requiring props) is rarely filled with lots of players, leaving a much smaller game selection. Often, that means the only games available are short-handed. However, being paid by hand can mean that a shorthanded player earns more per hour because the rate of play is much faster. However, the quality of players is often too great to make it worth playing against them (i.e. you'd better be real good or be playing with at least some fish). Remember, there are going to be other props on these sites, and with rare exception, they'll be good or very good b/c they play a lot of poker just like you. In fact, there are definitely some pros who use the prop bonuses to build themselves a comfortable income.

As far as working on shorthanded play, there is a huge shortage in good material right now. What is available: Poker Essays I (It might be II or III, I cannot be sure), Hold'Em for Advanced Players, Inside the Poker Mind (Feeney), and these forums. Since the popularity of shorthanded play is only begun growing recently with the advent of online poker, a lot of the best advice can be found on this site in the "Heads-up and Short-handed" forum...I can personally vouch that there are several winning players who frequent it.

Hope that helps. Good luck.
--Jason

[HonestPete]

My best experience has been proping at ACR, as it is a friendly and lax atmosphere (in a good way).

Problem is, if you go there expecting to prop that second you will be in a shock. It takes time to get a player to play you, and the majority of the time you will be playing HU or 3 way. Soon as a 4th sits in my experience the table fills, so make sure you are prepared to play HU and 3 handed, this is for HE btw.

7 stud hi lo, there is usually 3-4 core people always waiting to play, so if you can play that game then that is filled quite a lot of time also.

Regarding pay, I wouldn't say the $12/hour is correct as a lot of the time youll play a few hands then the table breaks or something like that. Also, unfortunately unlike what jason said it is rare that you can play 2 tables at once (thus earning double) unless you can play 2 tables shorthanded IF there are 2 at the limits you will be paid at.

Then again, seeing as a LOT of the players there are playing with Promo Bucks anyway, it is relatively easier to win their 'money' as some of them only see it as Promo Bucks as opposed to money.

I personally really enjoyed propping at ACR, and if you want to Prop I recommend you prop there.

Pete

True, you haven't been raped in prison yet.

[Ted Geisel]

MS Sunshine,

The post itself was taken from someone else's missive posted the other day about cheating. "Cheater" was changed to "prop" for most of the text and a few personal touches then added, that's all.

The idea was to show the adaptability of general rants to almost any topic. I thought the original rant was the funniest thing posted in months and couldn't leave it alone.

Certainly no offense is taken. Fire away.

(Nitrous, huh ? Haven't seen a Whippits reference in fifteen years.)

[MS Sunshine]

I went to the dentist recently, and had gas to have a filling done, and it brought back old memories.

MS Sunshine

[GrannyMae]

if you want to Prop I recommend you prop there.


i must be going senile.

i thought acr had stopped hiring new props.

are they recruiting them again pete?


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[HonestPete]

I thought they would be after some genuine props to get their higher games going, as recently they have had full 1/2 games consistently which they didnt have about 2 weeks ago.

I know a lot of peole signed up, played a few nights got the pay and left them. Obviously mdlm will have to check with the individual sites if they are still hiring.

Looking forward to the 5k freeroll, no doubt my top 2 pair is gona lose to an all in on someones runer runner flush draw. But lets see...

good luck all!

[Jason Pohl]

My friend (nor I) has not played on ACR in a long time. He did make good money for a few weeks and then the games started drying up. However, my friend's main reason for quitting the ACR prop gig was time. He had a full time job and couldn't consistently make the 20 hour requirement.

--Jason

[beernutz]

Jason, do you mind revealing your friend's nick at ACR?