Standard or overplays? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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zgall1

05-12-2005, 07:18 PM

No reads on any of the hands. I was just wondering if my plays were standard or overplays and whether I should have slowed down or folded anywhere.

Hand 1:
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, Button folds.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Hand 2:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero caps, Button calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

River: (10.75 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Hand 3:

I find that a play like this from villian usually means I am beat but I find that I can't get away from it. Should I be able to lay this down?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
4 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: (1.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

River: (5.25 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

Thanks!
Final Pot: 12.75 BB

gvibes

05-12-2005, 07:39 PM

disclaimer: I'm not good.

Hand 1: I'm not sure what to do in this situation. I have folded preflop before. I would also consider a flop c/r.

Hand 2: I play it the same.

Hand 3: I would fold to the turn raise.

Rondelle

05-12-2005, 08:44 PM

Hand 1: I like the way you played this hand. Your opponent is giving you no reason to stop bettting. If he drew out on you with a third 7 on the river, so be it, tell him he played the hand well and move on.

Hand 2 and 3 are similar in that you think you have the best hand, but your opponent's raise on the turn scares you. To me, if you are planning on check/calling your opponent's bet on the river, consider instead spending that river bet on the turn. If you three bet the turn with jacks and your opponent four bets the hand, you can fold and be fairly certain you are beat. It sounds like in this hand, your opponent had a bigger pocket pair, but it depends on the player. Did the opponent have a higher pocket pair?

The third hand could apply the same aggressive turn strategy as hand 2. It kind of depends on how much you know of your opponent. If he is a tight, solid player, the opponent's raise on the turn might induce me fold in this situation. If you've seen the player splash around in a lot of hands, I would consider three betting the turn.

On hands 2 and 3, I'm not saying you should blindly raise the turn if you think your hand might be good. You have another option, obviously, which would be to fold. It entirely depends on your read of the situation. If your opponent seems fairly tight, hasn't played a lot of hands, and rarely plays past the flop without top pair or better, you should fold to the raise. If, however, you've seen your opponent splash around in several hands, play to the river on questionable hands, take the agressive 3-bet approach and punish him for loose play. Who knows maybe he'll fold right there or to a lead out bet on the river? If he does cap the betting on the turn, you're almost certainly beat and can fold immediately (costing you the same amount if you had just called the turn and river).

I'm not sure what the opponent could have held in hand 3. I'm thinking possibly somehing like a-2s, or perhaps he tried to slow play a queen since he had you heads up.

I know you mentioned you didn't have a read, but try to pay attention to an opponent's tendencies to help you make good decisions on the turn. From your title, it sounds like you were beaten in all of these hands, so I'm curious to hear the results.

Nick Royale

05-12-2005, 08:56 PM

Hand 1:
I c/r the flop, but you certainly didn't overplay it.

Hand 2:
Standard.

Hand 3:
I would probably fold the turn.

gvibes

05-12-2005, 09:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
To me, if you are planning on check/calling your opponent's bet on the river, consider instead spending that river bet on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bad advice. Villain is never folding to a 3-bet so we have no folding equity. Also, we are going to be OOP on the river, so if we check, villain will likely bet again.

Even if we were in position, I still don't like it. Very little folding equity, and we can actually see a showdown for the same amount of money.

Rondelle

05-12-2005, 09:16 PM

I agree that playing the turn aggressively and out of position as I've mentioned could cost you more if you decide to lead out with a bet/or even check on the river. I tried to stress, however, the importance of selectively using the agressive approach on the turn. It's impossible to play these hands correctly without some kind of read on your opponent. The check/call will get to you to showdown for the least amount of money, but what if you had your opponent beat the entire way? You will have missed a bet by just check/calling to get to the showdown.

zgall1

05-13-2005, 11:13 AM

In Hand 1, villian had AQo and I guess he was scared by my aggression. I don't think there was anyway I was going to be able to put him on that hand.

In Hand 2, villian had AA and I just felt the raise coming on the turn but I guess it was just one of those hands where you are going to lose a few bets (based on the responses here).

In Hand 3, villain had A2 and after reading the responses, I realize I could have gotten away from it. I should have known that any other hand there other than Qx doesn't make much sense and even Qx has me beat. I like the advice to fold the river.

Thanks guys