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View Full Version : Looking under the hood of a used pc.


Jeff W
05-12-2005, 07:11 PM
Those of you following my saga know that I'm still looking for a Desktop PC. I was chatting on IRC and a friend of mine dropped a deal in my lap. The following rig for $1,000-$1,200(negotiable):
http://img155.echo.cx/img155/8038/picture4ao.jpg

Can anyone give me some advice on evaluating PC? My friend says he will bring it up this weekend if I am interested and then he will let me test it out. Never having bought a used PC, I do not know what to look for to tell if it is going to hold up for the long haul.

PC was purchased in November. I will obtain all warranties and receipts, but many components may be out of warranty.

Thanks for your help.

Cubswin
05-12-2005, 07:16 PM
dude... get a dell /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Jeff W
05-12-2005, 07:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
dude... get a dell /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, do you think so? Here is the only reasonable deal out that I've seen. (http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/messageview.php?start=20&catid=18&threadid=473031)

I have to spend ~$500 to upgrade that to dual dvi video card, dual HDD, DVD/R and 1 GB ram. I also have to sell the 1905FP monitor on eBay somehow. Seems like I'm trying to squeeze water from a stone. It does offer me much more safety warranty wise.

thwang99
05-12-2005, 07:22 PM
I'm not sure how good a deal that is but don't get a FX-55, get a few steps lower. The performance difference might be 25% which is unnoticible. Instead of 60 seconds to process say a large MPEG file, it might take 65 or 70 seconds.

Get an Athlon also consider that. Make sure buss speed is high, etc.

The price goes up expotentially for the current top of the line processor.

Liek say there's AMD 1 to 5, prices might be:
price speed
1: $900 500
2: $500 480
3: $300 450
4: $250 425
5: $200 410

So, not worth it to get top of the line. Besides you don't need it. Everything else about the system looks fine, though I'd get a WD raptor 74gig, those SCREAM, and will make a noticible diff to your performance! Esp with large databases. /images/graemlins/wink.gif - Tony

Jeff W
05-12-2005, 07:26 PM
I can't get less than the FX-55. The PC is sold as is.

The price he's offering is $1200(max-may be able to get this down to $1k) for the whole shebang and the processor alone costs $808 brand new on new egg. The system is hugely underpriced, which is what worries me and tantalizes me.

_dave_
05-12-2005, 08:29 PM
I'm not too familiar with the $USD prices of 2nd hand components, but from what I see this looks like a real bargain. In the UK at the current ex. rtates, this would be superb value at approx. £600, which I would spend without a seconds regret on a system like this - presuming I am correct in the following assumption:

System is stable and runs cool when not overclocked - There is something wrong if a watercooled system is getting hot at stock settings.

First thing first, take the side off the box and have a look inside - neat & tidy - good impression, cables all over the place, no cable-ties, untidy mess - bad first impression. Even if you have no idea what to look for, looking inside is a good idea, but don't touch.

To evaluate the stability of a computer, I regularly use the following tools:

MemTest 86 + (http://www.memtest.org/) - Whenever I build a machine, this is run for at least 2 passes (~1 hour at a guess on this machine). This determines basic memory performance and stability, any errors shown here and there is a problem - computer will be crashy.

Download the "Bootable ISO", burn a CD and boot the test PC with this CD - Fully automatic OS independant CPU/memory test.

If memtest86 runs without problems, I then run the following two programs from windows:

Prime95 (http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=103) - This calculates prime numbers, and has a "Torture Test" mode that should max out the processor indefinately. Run this for a few hours, if it does not crash, and the CPU / System temperature is still at a nice cool level, the comp is a good one /images/graemlins/smile.gif

For completion, I will usually also run benchmarking software (free versions) Futuremark (http://www.futuremark.com/download/) - 3DMark2001, 3DMark03 & 3DMark05 To test & evaluate the graphics card performance. These should not crash. If they do, there is a problem with the VGA card, or the CPU / Memory. Likely the VGA card if memtest & prime95 have been running without errors.

I may also run 3DMark (looping) at the same time as Prime95 to give the system some real stress for a while.

After 2 pass of memtest, 2 hours of Prime95 and a benchmark + demo of each 3dmark, I consider a computer I have just built to be "Totally Stable" and ready for payment + collection by whomever is buying it.

You may also want to run Seagate tools, Desktop Edition (http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/) to verify the stsus of the hard disk drive, but this is not expensive to replace if faulty, and if it was the only problem, would not stop me buying this machine.

In short, definately worth a viewing on the weekend. I would buy this for £600, with the expectation of either keeping it for myself or selling for £800+ (maybe upgrade mobo + VGA card and get £1000+ for it)


WRT warranty, most components will have 1-3 Years manufacturer's warranty, so long as u have the paperwork that comes with it when you buy - Speaking from the UK though, so I'm not sure if this is the same in the US.

Also you want driver discs / manuals etc, but drivers can be D/L if need be.

Good luck, I hope armed with these tools you will be able to evaluate what is being offered.

Dave.

Jeff W
05-12-2005, 08:38 PM
Thanks a lot! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'll give it a test run this weekend. If everything checks out according to these tests, I will purchase it.

The only problem I see is that he may not have all the warranties. Is that a deal breaker if the hardware tests out fine?

o0mr_bill0o
05-12-2005, 09:01 PM
eh, koolance kinda sucks as far as water cooling goes. overpriced, and underperforming. the only real value of it is that it's quieter than a comparable cooling system. but really it doesn't look like a terrible deal... also, you've probably already given this thought, but i'd look at building your own comp. that's really the best way to do it, period.

_dave_
05-12-2005, 09:23 PM
I wouldn't be too worried without warranty docs, but it's something to get if you can - I would really want one for that oh-so-expensive CPU, however, the use of non-standard cooling may have voided thet one with AMD anyway. Do not mention water cooling if you ever have to deal with AMD direct.

Most manufacturers will honour a 1 year warranty (or whatever they promote) if you can produce a valid serial number, but a reciept helps to establish date of purchase. If it is a product they have only been selling for 10 months, for example, they can not claim it could be out of warranty, and will honour the exchange/repair if you hassle them enough.

The Radeon is expensive also, warranty would be good on that. The only other parts of extreme price are the two pieces of corsair - I would think corsair will replace these if they become faulty, reciept or not - the corsair we sell has "Lifetime Warranty" stickers on it, and it is the cheap ValueSelect stuff.

In my experience (~5 years as a system builder / repair tech) PC components follow an obvious pattern of breakage, if treated right. They will be faulty immediately/within the first month or 2, or they will work for many years. If a computer I build is not back at our shop within a few months, it's not likely going to come back, unless it has software problems, ie. spyware/porn adverts/virus etc.

Considering this has been going since November, if it is capable of passing the various tests then it should keep on running for a long time.

It would be interesting to know why he wants rid of it - it sounds like someone bitten by the lanparty bug, had to have the best rig, and lost interest in that scene - either that or bought a better PC and needs to sell the old one.

If it was my money, presuming it passed my scrutiny of working properly, i would buy it with no warranty at $1K, no doubt. The CPU is near that alone. If you have to replace half the parts due to failure (not likely), it would still be cheaper than to buy this new (unless one of the parts was the CPU)

One important detail is the socket fitting of the CPU - either it will be 939 pin or 940 pin, 939 is by far the most preferable of the two (current standard, compatible with current top end mainboards), and I would expect this to be the case given the memory used. An unlikely 940 would be OK, but causes problems if the mainboard ever needs replaced. I am unsure that an FX-55 was even produced for a 940 pin, but earlier FX were, so it's worth a check.

Jeff W
05-12-2005, 09:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't be too worried without warranty docs, but it's something to get if you can - I would really want one for that oh-so-expensive CPU, however, the use of non-standard cooling may have voided thet one with AMD anyway. Do not mention water cooling if you ever have to deal with AMD direct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks again for the help. How will AMD know if I used water cooling or not anyway? Also, if I don't have it warrantied, is AMD going to give me problems?

He bought it for Everquest 2 and hated the game, so now he is selling it.

[ QUOTE ]

If it was my money, presuming it passed my scrutiny of working properly, i would buy it with no warranty at $1K, no doubt. The CPU is near that alone. If you have to replace half the parts due to failure (not likely), it would still be cheaper than to buy this new (unless one of the parts was the CPU)

[/ QUOTE ]

True, except I am not even going to use this PC for gaming. It is simply a very good value that gives me excellent features for a cost comparable to buying a base system and upgrading it. I actually only need a modest CPU w/ HT, 1 GB Ram, 2 HDDs(40+ GB), Modest Video Card...etc

_dave_
05-12-2005, 10:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
How will AMD know if I used water cooling or not anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]
Only if you accidentaly tell them - In the warranty docs it says warranty is only valid if you use the fan they provide, therefore if there ever is a problem, you say you were using their fan /images/graemlins/smile.gif


[ QUOTE ]
Also, if I don't have it warrantied, is AMD going to give me problems?

[/ QUOTE ]
I doubt it, but I only know of the UK. Here, if we can't get warranty replacement from the original supplier, we try the manufacturer. They tell us to try the supplier (if it's under 1 year), we explain they are being awkward/gone bust and the manufacturer will usually supply a replacement to us. Hard drive people, seagate, maxtor, western dig. etc are different - a serial number into their website, mail faulty hard drive, new one ~1 week later. I've personally done many hard drive replacements, but actually have never had to use AMD to replace a CPU. According to this page: Three (3) Year Processor In A Box Limited Warranty (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_867_2139,00.html), they need it to be a retail processor with documentation & proof of purchase to be elligable for warranty replacement.

I personally wouldn't worry about it if the seller can't provide these docs - If the processor works fine now, and the motherboard reports a reasonable temerature under heavy load, it should keep on working fine. In the worst case, you need to buy a new CPU, and it needn't be so extravagent as an FX55 - a 3000+ costs ~$150 as far as I can tell on newegg. This is a worst case of processor failure, very rarely happens < years of use (after 6 months of stable working)

[ QUOTE ]
I am not even going to use this PC for gaming.

[/ QUOTE ]
Given this fact, I may well try and sell the VGA card. Dual DVI would be good if you are one of these twin Dell 2001FP 8 tablers, and a radeon X800XT is a games card, overkill for non-3D games use.

[ QUOTE ]
I actually only need a modest CPU w/ HT, 1 GB Ram, 2 HDDs(40+ GB)

[/ QUOTE ]

HT is only on Intel, but is IMHO much over rated. I have no problems running pokertracker (1 minute updates), PV, GT+ and 8 tables on a lowly A64 3000+ w 1GB RAM.
(disclaimer: There is no way I can play 8 tables at once, but i have tested my comp to see if it can do it smoothly - it does)

ZimbuTheMonkey
05-12-2005, 10:31 PM
HE'S GIVING YOU THAT MACHINE FOR ONLY 1200!?

Oh my God! GIMME! GIMME!

threei
05-13-2005, 01:09 AM
That is one bad *** PC. Everything in there is top of the line. It's certainly overkill unless you're a hardcore 3D gamer. I just built myself a rig today with an Athlon 64 3200+, 1 gig ram, 6600 gt... Total cost including shipping (and WinXP) was $845. While 1200 is a good deal, you could probably build a poker rig for almost half that.

NoTalent
05-13-2005, 03:47 PM
Do not pass go
Do not collect $200
Buy this computer ASAP (if this is a friend you trust).

All those features and that power for $1200 (1000 if you negotiate!!!)???? /images/graemlins/ooo.gif /images/graemlins/ooo.gif
If it passes the test run and has what he says it has it it BUY IT!!!!

bigalt
05-13-2005, 04:15 PM
as everyone else is saying-- that's definitely a good deal on this computer. and also, this computer is way too good for you.

aside from the PITA of ebaying this, I think you would both be happier without this sale-- he could probably get more money for it and you could definitely get a sufficient rig for less money.

and don't forget, if you don't have them already you need monitors.

Jeff W
05-13-2005, 04:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think you would both be happier without this sale-- he could probably get more money for it and you could definitely get a sufficient rig for less money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but I have been shopping around and it's not going to be much cheaper to build a sufficient PC for less money unless I am sorely mistaken.

[ QUOTE ]


and don't forget, if you don't have them already you need monitors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I just bought 2 2001FPs.

bigalt
05-13-2005, 04:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but I have been shopping around and it's not going to be much cheaper to build a sufficient PC for less money unless I am sorely mistaken.


[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously I don't know your exact needs, but the computer I'm running now for 8 tabling with gametime+ along with light gaming every so often costed me around 500 bucks last year.

Sharkyextreme (http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/MVGSBG/article.php/10708_3501646__8) has some do-it-yourself guides, and they keep a budget of 1000 for their value system which is already decently powered and can be shaved down and bulked up in the appropriate places.

_dave_
05-13-2005, 05:26 PM
Another little program I forgot about yesterday is CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.org/cpuz.php) - This quickly gives detailed information about the processor, mainboard, memory, clock speeds & voltages of the system. Useful to verify that it is indeed an FX-55, for example.