ClaytonN
05-12-2005, 06:27 PM
Cross posted in Micro and HE forums
This is how I see the development of poker players where I sit right now. Please feel free to comment on my arguments as you see fit, but first a little background:
Last summer I turned my initial interests of video and board games towards card games after watching Moneymaker win the ’03 WSOP and subsequently following the action of all the ’04 events on Cardplayer and Pokerpages. Being initially underage that summer of ’04 (I was 17), I signed on to play in the freeroll tournaments offered on PokerRoom.com. This was entertaining after a while, but I soon wanted to know more. Being initially overconfident in my abilities, I bought HEPFAP and got lost halfway through the book due to the fact I couldn’t make out what Sklansky was saying half the time, be it the jargon or the dry language.
From there, I took little shots at Party Poker here and there with $50, losing that about three times in total. After that I decided to take a step away from poker and learn all over again.
This level is what I like to call the ground level: The level before the first step in development as a poker player. Making the decision to take the game seriously for earn as opposed to gambling, in my mind, constitutes the beginning of success in poker.
I took this first step in September and October of 2004 by purchasing Caro’s book on tells, some tournament books by McEvoy and Cloutier, and eventually found myself in the forums of 2+2 thanks to a link from another poker forum. Apparently the newest episode of the ’04 WSOP featured some kid named Gavin Griffin, and he was a poster at 2+2! I knew Raymer posted there, but that swayed me over the brown trout forums. I looked over the micro limit forums, read the MTT forums, and occasionally read some posts by ZJ on the 5-10 NL games at Stars (all the while never knowing he was only a year older than I). A got hooked on the posts by astroglide, strassa, ZJ, Diablo, Clarkmeister, Entity, btspider, Chris Daddy Cool, etc etc etc
From there, we go to step 1 in the development of a poker player: Learning and discipline. This can be done through books, but generally it just means learning on the fly in the games. Upon getting my own bank account when I turned 18 later that year, I deposited $100 and started Homer’s bankroll building guide. Honing my luckbox skills got me to a bankroll of approximately $500 thanks to limit Omaha at PokerPlex and Granny’s bonus.
Showing the ability to build a bankroll to begin with, in my opinion, is integral to the development of the poker player. When you just start out with a meager $50 or maybe $300, it takes a lot of mental discipline to get that money to around $1800 to start a legitimate roll at the moneymaking levels. Hand discussions, intricate play, and hard work seem less than beneficial when you look and see how little you are earning monetarily per 100 hands or per hour, all the while neglecting your efficiency in winning big bets.
So, as we move beyond the ground level of initiative and the first step of discipline, then comes the next step, which I see as learning the psychology and emotional aspects of poker. Poker is a game where it’s said that only 1 out of 10 are long term winners, and steps 1 and 2 seem to block out a strong majority of the unsuccessful 9. Poker is a zero-sum game, and the best move will not always guarantee a profit in the short run. This is hard to compensate to some degree, at its very core. However, in the long run a solid poker player who knows how to play his level can beat their game for profit.
After finishing Granny’s bonus, I took what I had and cashed out whatever was over $300 at the time and took my roll to .5/1 at PokerStars. This was a likely mistake at the time due to the fact Stars has so many MTT’s (which are my weakness) and little bonuses to help build a micro roll. Should have done Empire instead. But I digress…
I wasn’t able to gauge how well I was performing at the .5/1 level. At the time I was just playing and enjoying myself. If earn came, it came. I wasn’t recording sessions, and I wasn’t being overly attentive with other people’s play, unless it was amazingly fishy. If I was winning, then hell, I must have been doing something right. But how right was it? I had no clue, and was lazy.
At this point, we get to step 3, which is the recording of results. Poker is about making money, and by the time you get to the .5/1 level I feel it should be necessary that the player find a way to track their sessions and their earn rates, whether it’s Excel, PokerTracker, PokerOffice, or some other kind of method. When you aren’t just playing limit games (as I often did), you don’t get a scope on how well you’re beating the game, or if MTT’s are maybe a hole in your pocket that’s draining money (as it has been with me).
If you aren’t able to analyze your success, you won’t know a) how much money you’re earning, b) whether or not you’re ready to move up, or c) how your play is (strictly speaking statistics through PT).
Step 4, in my mind, is perseverance to the task. If you can hope to consistently beat poker, not only do you have to be dedicated to doing it, but you have to show perseverance in both good and bad times. This means dropping down levels when necessary, not taking overly aggressive shots with your bankroll, and not playing above your limits.
Around February I was still hovering around the $600 barrier, beating the .5/1 but struggling at 1-2, when I cashed a $500 payday for finishing 2nd in a $20 PLO tournament on Stars. Mind you, this probably put me just above break even for MTT’s overall, but it boosted my bankroll to 4 figures.
So, what did I do? Well, I took $60 and put it in a 3-6 HE game (Tard!). An amazingly hot run of cards then shot my bankroll up to $1400 (luckbox!).
But here I am, a player who is barely beating 1-2, now suddenly with a roll for 2-4 and maybe even 3-6 if I’ve got stones. This seems great on the outset, but I was too blinded by the sum of money and the prospects that came from it that I said “screw 1-2 altogether” and began focusing on 2-4 until my roll dropped to a 1-2 level.
Sure enough, it did. I should have seen it coming, but didn’t. I still took shots at 2-4 and 3-6 when the bankroll felt right, but to this day I feel like I should have learned to beat 1-2 before getting stupid and trying to jump up to small stakes and 3-6 games.
At this point I was feeling the stresses and pressures of the last year of high school, prom, grades, AP studying, getting into college, all that fun stuff. As an aside, I highly recommend not playing poker whenever you’re overly stressed in life outside of poker. When this happens, you’re playing to sort of escape from the world of being ultra-organized and studious trying to compete for that spot in the honors college, and your play gets looser and less optimal because you’re just trying to get away from all the stressful crap. Of course, some people manage to hold their own in spite of having stressful lives, but I have to believe this is not the case with everyone.
Lastly, the next and only step I see on the horizon before I see another one, is heart. Never be content. I get sick when I see people 8-tabling the 3-6 games and being sufficient with the earn you can get from that game when you just KNOW they could potentially have already made the move to the 15-30 game at Party and be raping it for 5 figures at a time the way most guys in the mid-high forums are.
The last step, in my mind, is an S curve. We all know the J shaped curve that can come from exponentially growing your sum of winnings. Winning at .5-1, winning at 1-2, then 2-4, 3-6, the earn per hour goes upward.
At some point though, the curve moves towards an S-phase. It could be due to complacency, a need for family security (as it is with MicroBob and davidross), or a more conservative approach to handling a bankroll. When you no longer feel the need to risk to earn more, you hit your highest level of average earn in price levels (or the y-axis).
Most excuses are excuseable for not going beyond 3-6, or 15-30 etc etc but you cannot be satisfied with a certainl level of winnings when you know you have a situation in life where you can take a chance to make more.
Most guys that post here are in their young twenties, and it just makes little sense to me why so many get stuck at the 3-6 level. Look at guys like ZeeJustin, making $300 an hour at age 19. Look at guys like strassa, playing HU sit-and-go’s for thousands of dollars. Look at guys like bicyclekick, making six figures already this year and still moving up in stakes. Guys like theBruiser, twentysomething and he took his luckbox madness to new levels in learning and thinking. Now he’s saying “FU” to Prahlad. They’re all young, and their lifestyles can afford it. So can mine. I want to get there. You ought to, as well.
If you have the bankroll for a higher game, you have to have the courage to step up in levels. At least TRY. I know at this point I don’t have the capacity or experience yet to beat 3/6 for a few bets per hundred, but I know with time and experience I will. And after that, I’ll try the same for the 5/10 shorthanded games. Then the 10/20 SH. Then 15/30 full. And then on.
So, how am I addressing it? I’m starting all over. I cashed out my excess funds and put it into college expenses, and I’m putting another $300 roll together to build a more effectively, and learn poker more effectively, by following my first 5 steps. Yes, I know as a result of this I’m possibly losing a month or two in time I could have taken my money and immediately jumped on learning 1-2 and 2-4, but I feel like it’s more appropriate that I start at the beginning and start right. High school graduation is a week from tomorrow, and I see all these people, friends I know on 2+2 that are only a few years older than me that are making substantial amounts of money from poker. I feel like I can do it, and I’m challenging myself to do it with the most effective skill set.
Ground level: Initiative
1) Emotional control
2) Learning + Discipline
3) Tracking results efficiently
4) Perseverance to the task/not acting overly stupid
5) Courage to step up in stakes when the time calls for it.
All comments are appreciated.
Clayton Newman
This is how I see the development of poker players where I sit right now. Please feel free to comment on my arguments as you see fit, but first a little background:
Last summer I turned my initial interests of video and board games towards card games after watching Moneymaker win the ’03 WSOP and subsequently following the action of all the ’04 events on Cardplayer and Pokerpages. Being initially underage that summer of ’04 (I was 17), I signed on to play in the freeroll tournaments offered on PokerRoom.com. This was entertaining after a while, but I soon wanted to know more. Being initially overconfident in my abilities, I bought HEPFAP and got lost halfway through the book due to the fact I couldn’t make out what Sklansky was saying half the time, be it the jargon or the dry language.
From there, I took little shots at Party Poker here and there with $50, losing that about three times in total. After that I decided to take a step away from poker and learn all over again.
This level is what I like to call the ground level: The level before the first step in development as a poker player. Making the decision to take the game seriously for earn as opposed to gambling, in my mind, constitutes the beginning of success in poker.
I took this first step in September and October of 2004 by purchasing Caro’s book on tells, some tournament books by McEvoy and Cloutier, and eventually found myself in the forums of 2+2 thanks to a link from another poker forum. Apparently the newest episode of the ’04 WSOP featured some kid named Gavin Griffin, and he was a poster at 2+2! I knew Raymer posted there, but that swayed me over the brown trout forums. I looked over the micro limit forums, read the MTT forums, and occasionally read some posts by ZJ on the 5-10 NL games at Stars (all the while never knowing he was only a year older than I). A got hooked on the posts by astroglide, strassa, ZJ, Diablo, Clarkmeister, Entity, btspider, Chris Daddy Cool, etc etc etc
From there, we go to step 1 in the development of a poker player: Learning and discipline. This can be done through books, but generally it just means learning on the fly in the games. Upon getting my own bank account when I turned 18 later that year, I deposited $100 and started Homer’s bankroll building guide. Honing my luckbox skills got me to a bankroll of approximately $500 thanks to limit Omaha at PokerPlex and Granny’s bonus.
Showing the ability to build a bankroll to begin with, in my opinion, is integral to the development of the poker player. When you just start out with a meager $50 or maybe $300, it takes a lot of mental discipline to get that money to around $1800 to start a legitimate roll at the moneymaking levels. Hand discussions, intricate play, and hard work seem less than beneficial when you look and see how little you are earning monetarily per 100 hands or per hour, all the while neglecting your efficiency in winning big bets.
So, as we move beyond the ground level of initiative and the first step of discipline, then comes the next step, which I see as learning the psychology and emotional aspects of poker. Poker is a game where it’s said that only 1 out of 10 are long term winners, and steps 1 and 2 seem to block out a strong majority of the unsuccessful 9. Poker is a zero-sum game, and the best move will not always guarantee a profit in the short run. This is hard to compensate to some degree, at its very core. However, in the long run a solid poker player who knows how to play his level can beat their game for profit.
After finishing Granny’s bonus, I took what I had and cashed out whatever was over $300 at the time and took my roll to .5/1 at PokerStars. This was a likely mistake at the time due to the fact Stars has so many MTT’s (which are my weakness) and little bonuses to help build a micro roll. Should have done Empire instead. But I digress…
I wasn’t able to gauge how well I was performing at the .5/1 level. At the time I was just playing and enjoying myself. If earn came, it came. I wasn’t recording sessions, and I wasn’t being overly attentive with other people’s play, unless it was amazingly fishy. If I was winning, then hell, I must have been doing something right. But how right was it? I had no clue, and was lazy.
At this point, we get to step 3, which is the recording of results. Poker is about making money, and by the time you get to the .5/1 level I feel it should be necessary that the player find a way to track their sessions and their earn rates, whether it’s Excel, PokerTracker, PokerOffice, or some other kind of method. When you aren’t just playing limit games (as I often did), you don’t get a scope on how well you’re beating the game, or if MTT’s are maybe a hole in your pocket that’s draining money (as it has been with me).
If you aren’t able to analyze your success, you won’t know a) how much money you’re earning, b) whether or not you’re ready to move up, or c) how your play is (strictly speaking statistics through PT).
Step 4, in my mind, is perseverance to the task. If you can hope to consistently beat poker, not only do you have to be dedicated to doing it, but you have to show perseverance in both good and bad times. This means dropping down levels when necessary, not taking overly aggressive shots with your bankroll, and not playing above your limits.
Around February I was still hovering around the $600 barrier, beating the .5/1 but struggling at 1-2, when I cashed a $500 payday for finishing 2nd in a $20 PLO tournament on Stars. Mind you, this probably put me just above break even for MTT’s overall, but it boosted my bankroll to 4 figures.
So, what did I do? Well, I took $60 and put it in a 3-6 HE game (Tard!). An amazingly hot run of cards then shot my bankroll up to $1400 (luckbox!).
But here I am, a player who is barely beating 1-2, now suddenly with a roll for 2-4 and maybe even 3-6 if I’ve got stones. This seems great on the outset, but I was too blinded by the sum of money and the prospects that came from it that I said “screw 1-2 altogether” and began focusing on 2-4 until my roll dropped to a 1-2 level.
Sure enough, it did. I should have seen it coming, but didn’t. I still took shots at 2-4 and 3-6 when the bankroll felt right, but to this day I feel like I should have learned to beat 1-2 before getting stupid and trying to jump up to small stakes and 3-6 games.
At this point I was feeling the stresses and pressures of the last year of high school, prom, grades, AP studying, getting into college, all that fun stuff. As an aside, I highly recommend not playing poker whenever you’re overly stressed in life outside of poker. When this happens, you’re playing to sort of escape from the world of being ultra-organized and studious trying to compete for that spot in the honors college, and your play gets looser and less optimal because you’re just trying to get away from all the stressful crap. Of course, some people manage to hold their own in spite of having stressful lives, but I have to believe this is not the case with everyone.
Lastly, the next and only step I see on the horizon before I see another one, is heart. Never be content. I get sick when I see people 8-tabling the 3-6 games and being sufficient with the earn you can get from that game when you just KNOW they could potentially have already made the move to the 15-30 game at Party and be raping it for 5 figures at a time the way most guys in the mid-high forums are.
The last step, in my mind, is an S curve. We all know the J shaped curve that can come from exponentially growing your sum of winnings. Winning at .5-1, winning at 1-2, then 2-4, 3-6, the earn per hour goes upward.
At some point though, the curve moves towards an S-phase. It could be due to complacency, a need for family security (as it is with MicroBob and davidross), or a more conservative approach to handling a bankroll. When you no longer feel the need to risk to earn more, you hit your highest level of average earn in price levels (or the y-axis).
Most excuses are excuseable for not going beyond 3-6, or 15-30 etc etc but you cannot be satisfied with a certainl level of winnings when you know you have a situation in life where you can take a chance to make more.
Most guys that post here are in their young twenties, and it just makes little sense to me why so many get stuck at the 3-6 level. Look at guys like ZeeJustin, making $300 an hour at age 19. Look at guys like strassa, playing HU sit-and-go’s for thousands of dollars. Look at guys like bicyclekick, making six figures already this year and still moving up in stakes. Guys like theBruiser, twentysomething and he took his luckbox madness to new levels in learning and thinking. Now he’s saying “FU” to Prahlad. They’re all young, and their lifestyles can afford it. So can mine. I want to get there. You ought to, as well.
If you have the bankroll for a higher game, you have to have the courage to step up in levels. At least TRY. I know at this point I don’t have the capacity or experience yet to beat 3/6 for a few bets per hundred, but I know with time and experience I will. And after that, I’ll try the same for the 5/10 shorthanded games. Then the 10/20 SH. Then 15/30 full. And then on.
So, how am I addressing it? I’m starting all over. I cashed out my excess funds and put it into college expenses, and I’m putting another $300 roll together to build a more effectively, and learn poker more effectively, by following my first 5 steps. Yes, I know as a result of this I’m possibly losing a month or two in time I could have taken my money and immediately jumped on learning 1-2 and 2-4, but I feel like it’s more appropriate that I start at the beginning and start right. High school graduation is a week from tomorrow, and I see all these people, friends I know on 2+2 that are only a few years older than me that are making substantial amounts of money from poker. I feel like I can do it, and I’m challenging myself to do it with the most effective skill set.
Ground level: Initiative
1) Emotional control
2) Learning + Discipline
3) Tracking results efficiently
4) Perseverance to the task/not acting overly stupid
5) Courage to step up in stakes when the time calls for it.
All comments are appreciated.
Clayton Newman