I just don't get it...

[A-Baum]

I have played 5000+ hands of $.50/$1 and $1/$2 5 or 6 table max and done very well, specifically to the tune of 4.33 BB/100. Every time I get to a level I have previously set, I take $200 and sit a $2/$4 game and just get crushed. 4 times in a row now I've lost 25BB before stopping and going back to the lower limits.

I seem to get great cards and play against crappy opponents in the small limits. When I move to $2/$4 I swear it seems that the deck goes completely cold, I can't get a hand, and when I do it gets cracked. The players are better, but not all that much better. Table is about 33% preflop, which is average I guess.

Is there some kind of adjustment I can make so I can be successful at the $2/$4? I am extremely aggressive at the lower limits, and I bring that to the $2/$4 table as well, jamming when I have the best of it. I feel I play the same game, but get killed. Any suggestions?

I can't think or post any particular hand because it's just one after another. I do look back at hands and think I could have done something better, but I don't see any glaring problems with any of them.

[rmarotti]

Online poker is rigged.

[A-Baum]

[ QUOTE ]
Online poker is rigged.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to die in a fire. I wasn't claiming anything was rigged you jackass. I simply asked for suggestions on how to move to the $2/$4. Are you a dickhead in the morning only or is this an all day thing for you?

[rmarotti]

Your question is too general and mildly retarded. My answer is warranted. Try the search function. Try not being an a[/i]sshole right off the t[/i]its. You might make a few friends if you try real hard.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Your question is too general and mildly retarded. My answer is warranted. Try the search function. Try not being an a[/i]sshole right off the t[/i]its. You might make a few friends if you try real hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

In case you need help using the search function, go here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2065086&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1). Thanks.

[A-Baum]

[ QUOTE ]
Your question is too general and mildly retarded. My answer is warranted. Try the search function. Try not being an a[/i]sshole right off the t[/i]its. You might make a few friends if you try real hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your answer is not warranted. You continuing to post in this thread is not warranted. I'm not really worried about making friends with people like yourself, but thanks anyway.

Simple question in the original post. A highly aggressive strategy works at the low limits, but for some reason doesn't carry over to the $2/$4. Players are better so they aren't paying off with crap like the low limit. How does that affect your strategy?

[chief444]

I had a friend once but he moved.

[rmarotti]

Have you read any of the books published by the company that runs this site? How about the one on small stakes hold 'em? jason has a helpful link for you above. Use it.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your question is too general and mildly retarded. My answer is warranted. Try the search function. Try not being an a[/i]sshole right off the t[/i]its. You might make a few friends if you try real hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your answer is not warranted. You continuing to post in this thread is not warranted. I'm not really worried about making friends with people like yourself, but thanks anyway.

Simple question in the original post. A highly aggressive strategy works at the low limits, but for some reason doesn't carry over to the $2/$4. Players are better so they aren't paying off with crap like the low limit. How does that affect your strategy?

[/ QUOTE ]

A-Baum = A-Hole.

[rmarotti]

I would be your friend if you still weren't so steamed about all the brutal suckouts I layed on you at 2/4. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[chief444]

No wonder I have no friends. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[A-Baum]

[ QUOTE ]
Have you read any of the books published by the company that runs this site? How about the one on small stakes hold 'em? jason has a helpful link for you above. Use it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I've read Winning Low Limit Hold'em, HPFAP, HOH, and I'm halfway through TOP. I've adapted a lot that I've learned to the $.50/$1 and $1/$2 5-6 max, and improved my BB/100 from 2.3 to what it is now by adopting an aggressive strategy and jamming pots when I have the best of it. I just don't see why this isn't appying to the $2/$4 table. I see people table garbage, so the level isn't much higher there than the smaller limits. Just not sure how to adjust.

[A-Baum]

[ QUOTE ]

A-Baum = A-Hole.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow that's pretty clever. You probably think you're the first one to come up with that. You should be proud. Pat yourself on the back.

[rmarotti]

A-Baum, I'd like to introduce you to my friend VARIANCE. You'll be seeing a lot of him. Read Ed Miller's book on small stake's hold 'em.

[rmarotti]

Please die.


Or stop posting retarded replies like that.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

A-Baum = A-Hole.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow that's pretty clever. You probably think you're the first one to come up with that. You should be proud. Pat yourself on the back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chill. The f[/i]uck. Out.

[Matt Jenko]

If you are reviewing your hands that you have played at 2/4 and seen that you are not doing anything glaringly obviously wrong, then just take your time before making a judgement on your game there. Getting used to different levels can take a little while and adjusting to the different styles you encounter does as well. Keep plugging away with your game and review all the hands you are involved in. You sound like you are sensibly looking after your bankroll, so my advice would be patience and have confidence. Those winning sessions will come along if your ability is as you think it is, and once you get a few BB under your belt so you can consistently play at this level, you won't look back. There is a frustration in seeing a table full of relatively weak and loose players and all the money going everywhere except your seat I agree, but the best policy for these games is perseverance.

As an aside, the best book imo for the levels you are playing is the Ed Miller SSH book.

[ApolloQuiet]

[ QUOTE ]
I have played 5000+ hands of $.50/$1 and $1/$2 5 or 6 table max and done very well

[/ QUOTE ]

Come back after 40K hands and give us some stats to work with. 5000 hands is nothing. Some of us do that in a couple of days multitabling. Sorry I can't offer you anything more.

[A-Baum]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

A-Baum = A-Hole.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow that's pretty clever. You probably think you're the first one to come up with that. You should be proud. Pat yourself on the back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chill. The f[/i]uck. Out.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right I should. And maybe you should have avoided this thread considering you contributed nothing to it. I didn't come into your thread, you came into mine.

Back to topic:
The only highly recommended book I haven't read yet is the Ed Miller one. If that is far and away the best small stakes poker book out there, then I shall pick it up. Maybe if I get good enough at poker, someday I can feel the need to invade threads on here and berate some inexperienced players. Ahhhh, that's the dream.

[A-Baum]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have played 5000+ hands of $.50/$1 and $1/$2 5 or 6 table max and done very well

[/ QUOTE ]

Come back after 40K hands and give us some stats to work with. 5000 hands is nothing. Some of us do that in a couple of days multitabling. Sorry I can't offer you anything more.

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem, I appreciate the post. Should I wait till I have a few thousand more hands before moving up, or before I start believing the statistics? I'm really trying to conciously keep tabs on my bankroll, so maybe I'll stick around in the basement of the limit tables for a while until I build up a bigger stack. That will tell me I am playing well, and well enough to move up.

[27offsooot]

If you have 300 BB and are competent to beat 2/4, u should have no bank roll issues. If u don't know whether or not u are, u can play until u have like 150 BB, then drop down to 1/2. Wait until u have at least 10k hands at 2/4 b/f u post stats and what not if u need to.

[A-Baum]

[ QUOTE ]
If you have 300 BB and are competent to beat 2/4, u should have no bank roll issues. If u don't know whether or not u are, u can play until u have like 150 BB, then drop down to 1/2. Wait until u have at least 10k hands at 2/4 b/f u post stats and what not if u need to.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good suggestion. Maybe I have been going about it wrong. I play the low limits until a certain level, at that point I give myself 25BB to sit at a $2/$4 table and see if I can get something going. If I drop that 25BB, it's back to the kiddie pool where I build it up again. Seems like I'm getting nowhere because I can't win anything at the $2/$4. One thing I like about $2/$4 is bets mean a little more than the lower limits and you know whether you're ahead of behind. At the $1/$2 limit I've seen a guy with pocket AA hit an A on the flop and just check call down to the river without a scary board.

It's frustrating, because I don't make huge mistakes. I calculate odds for all my draws, pay attention to the pot and the players, but I just can't get anything going.

[rmarotti]

To avoid getting (quite rightfully) flamed in the future may I suggest taking the advice found here (http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php)?

[A-Baum]

[ QUOTE ]
To avoid getting (quite rightfully) flamed in the future may I suggest taking the advice found here (http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesus Christ are you done yet? You are the biggest doushbag I've seen on these boards, and I've lurked long before I joined.

[rmarotti]

Apparently you only lurked in OOT or you would have realized how stupid your original post was.

Oh, and you misspelled "douche."

Please go away or get humble real quick.

[A-Baum]

Boy you just can't let it go, can you fatty? I said it before, but you came into my thread and contributed nothing, unlike a few polite and friendly people who actually had something worthwhile to say. I'm sorry that you rolled out of the wrong side of bed this morning. I forgive you. Now let it go.

[Super Pro]

Did you ever consider that you just suck at poker? Stick to the kiddie pool and don't move up until you have a real idea about this game.

[A-Baum]

Yes I have considered that. And it's highly possible. That's why when I lose some, I move back down and build up again. Looks like I'll be living out the rest of my life at the $1/$2 5-6 max tables. Lots of action...lot of action.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you ever consider that you just suck at poker? Stick to the kiddie pool and don't move up until you have a real idea about this game.

[/ QUOTE ]

A-baum,
I do agree with a lot of RMarrotti's comments, even though he was kind of a dick about it. However, never listen to a word from Super Pro. He is a dick and a moron.

[A-Baum]

Well I was just looking for some advice in general, that's why I didn't make it real specific. And about searching, how exactly do you search for "I am successful at one limit but when I move up I get eaten alive"?

Wasn't quite sure that would work in the search.

[Super Pro]

[censored] you.

[QTip]

That.
Was.
Awesome.

[A-Baum]

that's funny. Not sure who it's for, but funny.

[SunOfaJack]

In addition to comments made, one thing nobody has mentioned is that you mentioned 1/2-6max games, do you 1/2 fullhanded, there is a difference, your aggression will serve you better shorthanded and 1/2 6max is full of terrible players. Stop playing 0.50/1.00 and play 1/2 full table. If your goal is to move to 2/4 full, you should at least be profitable at 1/2 full beforehand.....

[chief444]

That is xxxxing hilarious!

I hope you don't mind I added that to my favorites just in case.

[PotatoStew]

Small sample size... don't get overly worried about it. Also, it's fine to take a shot at 2/4, but you might want to take a slightly bigger shot than sporadic 25BB buy ins. If you can afford a 300BB bankroll, do what another poster suggested and dive in, dropping down when you're down to 150BB or so.

Also, you say you're playing the exact same game -- you most likely need to tighten up a little bit. That could be part of the problem. What's your VP$IP?

[obsidian]

Just a note, if you want to make it on these forums you need to grow some thick skin. Anyways, I was in the same boat as you. Doing great at .5/1 and 1/2 then stepped up to 2/4 and got crushed. The impact was really more psychological than anything. I was (and still am) new to the game and the beating I was taking at the slightly higher stakes made me question abilities. I went back to 1/2, worked my bankroll back up, and took another shot.

Now I'm at 3/6 and recently took a shot at 5/10 6-max. I lost about 60BB there and decided I needed a bigger bankroll before moving up. The difference this time is I know I can beat the 5/10 game. I'm not questioning my poker abilities like I was when I first took a beating at 2/4. I just understand that 300BB isn't enough for 5/10 6-max.

Of course you also need to objectively look at how you are playing. Get poker tracker, find out what hands you are losing the most on and see if you are misplaying them at all. Post here if you are unsure.

[A-Baum]

I did get poker tracker and have about 3000 hands in it right now. I am a little unsure of how to use it to its utmost ability. I look at VPIP and aggression but I can't use it yet to look up other players because I don't have that many players in my list yet and I never seem to play with the same players twice. I do look at hands that I've lost money on, but like others have said I have such a small sample size it's tough to look at a hand that I played 5 or 6 times and get an idea what I'm doing right/wrong.

I do have thick skin, and nothing said or typed bothers me, I just fire back at people who I think are being dickheads.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your question is too general and mildly retarded. My answer is warranted. Try the search function. Try not being an a[/i]sshole right off the t[/i]its. You might make a few friends if you try real hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

In case you need help using the search function, go here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2065086&page=&view=&s b=5&o=&vc=1). Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
I have played 5000+ hands of $.50/$1 and $1/$2 5 or 6 table max and done very well, specifically to the tune of 4.33 BB/100.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain to me the problem in this.

[ QUOTE ]
Every time I get to a level I have previously set, I take $200 and sit a $2/$4 game and just get crushed. 4 times in a row now I've lost 25BB before stopping and going back to the lower limits.


[/ QUOTE ]

Explain to me the problem in this.

[A-Baum]

You're not taking into account any additional money I got from bonuses/reloading.
Oh and the 4.33bb/100 is only at $.50/$1 or $1/$2 tables. The $2-$4 tables are very -$$/100

[BottlesOf]

I'm sure this has been said 100 times, but 5,000 hands? 25BB losses?

Jesus Christ, use the [censored] search function.

[A-Baum]

Yes you're not the first to point out the search function.

I never had a 25bb losing session at the lower levels, so it was a bit strange for me.

I guess I'll just drop it and figure it out on my own.

[chief444]

[ QUOTE ]
I never had a 25bb losing session at the lower levels, so it was a bit strange for me.


[/ QUOTE ]
That's because you've barely played any yet.

[BottlesOf]

Prepare yourself for 250BB downswings also, b/c they happen to the very best.

[sfer]

You missed my point.

[DMBFan23]

wow this thread sucks

[ApolloQuiet]

If you're committed to moving up in levels, don't take stabs at them. Stay at a level you are comfortable with, and doing well at (ie. $1/2). Build a 400BB bankroll for the next level, $1600 for $2/4. Give it a legitamate shot. I would try staying in for at least 150BB's. If you go through that, and you don't know why it disappeared, then drop down to $1/2, where you will still have a nice bankroll. Post some hands that you have questions about, could be you have leaks in your game, could be you're running bad.

Most importantly, do as others here have suggested, allthough not in the friendliest of ways, search this board, especially the small stakes section. Look over all the sample hands, see what you would have done different, see what others have to say. Not everyone here is a pro, or even a winning player, so take that into consideration when reading posts.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
Not everyone here is a pro, or even a winning player, or even a decent human being so take that into consideration when reading posts. For example, Super Pro fits into all of the above.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
Simple question in the original post. A highly aggressive strategy works at the low limits, but for some reason doesn't carry over to the $2/$4. Players are better so they aren't paying off with crap like the low limit. How does that affect your strategy?

[/ QUOTE ]

To rip off another poster's quote, "The worst players in teh world play 1/2 6m. The second worst players play 2/4."

-d

[ApolloQuiet]

Nice addition.

If someone replies to your post and doesn't have anything constructive to say, ignore them and move on, it's not worth the time or the effort to get into a pissing contest with. There are plenty of players who contribute and are willing to share knowledge with you.

[Bill C]

[ QUOTE ]
Well I was just looking for some advice in general,

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't look directly into the sun.

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not everyone here is a pro, or even a winning player, or even a decent human being so take that into consideration when reading posts. For example, Super Pro fits into all of the above.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP.

[/ QUOTE ]

thread redeemed.

[Bob T.]

You were just very fortunate at lower levels.

These kinds of swings are very common. If you never had a downswing of 25BBs, you were either not paying attention, or you were incredibly lucky. I would guess that I have a downswing of that size every other day. Nearly every month, I have a downswing of at least 100 BBs, and most months, I have a swing of 150 BBS.

If you are playing aggressively, that will increase your volatility, and increase the chances that you will have swings of this level.

Your game should at least be survivable at the 2-4 level if you did well at lower levels, and you will probably need only minor adjustments.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[nolanfan34]

I'll offer a couple of quick thoughts. I know people get tired of seeing threads like this, but I don't understand the harsh responses you're getting from the long-time SS posters. You guys all need to step back and remember times that you might have posted a dumb question on this site. Jeez. If you think it's a dumb post, just let it die.

Anyway...

I ran into the same issue when I moved up to 2-4. I really think it was just psychological more than anything. Simple variance and bad luck played a role, and when playing at a higher stake, losing a big pot was much more frustrating.

Finally I just said F-it and committed myself to playing 4-tables of it while I was clearing a bonus, and got used to the stakes rather quickly. At that point, I started to loosen up a bit, get more aggressive when needed, and played better overall.

So keep taking some shots, bankroll permitting. That's my advice.

[MaxPower]

A-Baum,

I'm sorry to see that you are being treated so rudely by a few posters. You came here with good intentions and shouldn't be attacked just because you lack some knowledge.

Poker is a tough game and it takes a long time to guarantee a win even if you are a great player. You are obviously very new to the game since you have not experienced any big swings yet.

I don't think you should be thinking about moving up at all. Just keep playing whatever level game you want until you find that you are no longer learning anything. Just focus on improving your game and don't worry about the money or moving up to higher limits.

I played 3/6 for years and just worked on learning as much as I could about the game and trying to put that knowledge into practice. There came a time where I didn't feel I was learning anything new and so I started to move up in order to challenge myself.

Even then, everytime you move up, some adjustment and learning is needed. The game may look the same, but it isn't.

It takes a lot of work and time to get really good at poker. There are a few freaks like GuyOnTilt or Bicyclekick who become great players quickly, but for most of us mortals we have to work at it.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your question is too general and mildly retarded. My answer is warranted. Try the search function. Try not being an a[/i]sshole right off the t[/i]its. You might make a few friends if you try real hard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your answer is not warranted. You continuing to post in this thread is not warranted. I'm not really worried about making friends with people like yourself, but thanks anyway.

Simple question in the original post. A highly aggressive strategy works at the low limits, but for some reason doesn't carry over to the $2/$4. Players are better so they aren't paying off with crap like the low limit. How does that affect your strategy?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is completely untrue.

I have KQ. I raise. 3 to the flop

it's JT8

I bet, donk raises, I 3bet, donk caps.

Turn JT98, two hearts, I c/r, donk 3bets, i cap

River JT983, no flush possible. I bet, donk raises, i 3bet, he caps.

I have K high straigt, he has J7 /images/graemlins/grin.gif

If you are really good, then you will win, you might be getting cold cards. Just try good table selection, and stay aggresive.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Have you read any of the books published by the company that runs this site? How about the one on small stakes hold 'em? jason has a helpful link for you above. Use it.

[/ QUOTE ]

5,000 hands is insignificant. If you are winning 4BB per after 50000 hands, that's different

Yeah I've read Winning Low Limit Hold'em, HPFAP, HOH, and I'm halfway through TOP. I've adapted a lot that I've learned to the $.50/$1 and $1/$2 5-6 max, and improved my BB/100 from 2.3 to what it is now by adopting an aggressive strategy and jamming pots when I have the best of it. I just don't see why this isn't appying to the $2/$4 table. I see people table garbage, so the level isn't much higher there than the smaller limits. Just not sure how to adjust.

[/ QUOTE ]

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
It takes a lot of work and time to get really good at poker. There are a few freaks like GuyOnTilt or Bicyclekick who become great players quickly, but for most of us mortals we have to work at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted for emphasis. This is an important point. There are a lot of great players on here who have moved up quickly. They are the exception though in many cases. Most people will have a harder time moving up, for a multitude of reasons.

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
wow this thread sucks

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you thank you thank you

[meanjean]

[ QUOTE ]
I have played 5000+ hands of $.50/$1 and $1/$2 5 or 6 table max and done very well, specifically to the tune of 4.33 BB/100. Every time I get to a level I have previously set, I take $200 and sit a $2/$4 game and just get crushed. 4 times in a row now I've lost 25BB before stopping and going back to the lower limits.

I seem to get great cards and play against crappy opponents in the small limits. When I move to $2/$4 I swear it seems that the deck goes completely cold, I can't get a hand, and when I do it gets cracked. The players are better, but not all that much better. Table is about 33% preflop, which is average I guess.

Is there some kind of adjustment I can make so I can be successful at the $2/$4? I am extremely aggressive at the lower limits, and I bring that to the $2/$4 table as well, jamming when I have the best of it. I feel I play the same game, but get killed. Any suggestions?

I can't think or post any particular hand because it's just one after another. I do look back at hands and think I could have done something better, but I don't see any glaring problems with any of them.

[/ QUOTE ]


Read a couple of the two plus two books or any of the other books on lower limit holdem

see if reading them points out any blantent errors in your game...

the obvious answere is that you are still playing a six max type game...that won't fly too well at a full table

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think you should be thinking about moving up at all. Just keep playing whatever level game you want until you find that you are no longer learning anything. Just focus on improving your game and don't worry about the money or moving up to higher limits.

I played 3/6 for years and just worked on learning as much as I could about the game and trying to put that knowledge into practice. There came a time where I didn't feel I was learning anything new and so I started to move up in order to challenge myself.

Even then, everytime you move up, some adjustment and learning is needed. The game may look the same, but it isn't.

It takes a lot of work and time to get really good at poker. There are a few freaks like GuyOnTilt or Bicyclekick who become great players quickly, but for most of us mortals we have to work at it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Needed to hear this. Thanks.

[jnalpak]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to die in a fire.

[/ QUOTE ]
-hijack-
this is a bit off the subject but would you say to die by fire could be one of the worst ways of dying...the only other thing i can think of is a prolonged death by torture via pins in my pee hole and then finally dying of shock...

other then that, i think your rant is warranted but believe you are going at it the wrong way. The type of player is basically the same at .50/1 and 1/2....2/4 is IMHO the same as the other 2 limits except you get a lot of rocks and overplayers. Oh and the money is a bit more. You may have just played 4 terrible times but i have NEVER gone 4 times in a row, 2 yes but after 2 bad runs i settle back, read over a few chapters of where i think i may be going bad and then hit that limit again.

Losing 25BB and then turning away is your problem. I have say and lost a full stack at the 2/4 buyin...walked away played again and won it all back...RELAX.

and lastly Your typical donkey is still at this table...

Online poker is rigged...in my favor though /images/graemlins/grin.gif