$225 Turbo Hand - Big Preflop Fold??

[UMTerp]

cash$balla (3370 in chips) - BB
mr.greenz (1435 in chips)
UMTerp (1675 in chips)
finisher con (900 in chips)
RTFirefly (1370 in chips)
Bog25 (4750 in chips) - SB

Bog25: posts small blind 25
cash$balla: posts big blind 50

Dealt to UMTerp Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
mr.greenz: folds
UMTerp: raises 150 to 200
finisher con: folds
RTFirefly: raises 1170 to 1370 and is all-in
Bog25: raises 3380 to 4750 and is all-in
cash$balla: folds

Try to triple up or let it go?? I almost never make folds like this online, but I had to think long and hard about this one...

[bugstud]

got any idea on a range here? I don't like folding much...stars have a slightly more top-heavy payout than party? I have forgotten.

[Pepsquad]

Helluva laydown. You probably did the right thing. One would think at LEAST AK is out there. Sadly...I would call (and get beaten most often by AA or KK). I'd somehow talk myself into the fact that pusher #1 has mid PP and hopes he's a coin-flip to double up and pusher #2 has AK.

[deathpotato]

I fold this too. Blinds are not very imposing yet, you are UTG+1, a push and then ANOTHER push over it are extremely strong at this point. But hell, maybe I'm just a pussy.

[sng-sam]

Good fold. What did they have?

SAM

[UMTerp]

I did fold, and they both had AK. I still think it's right the majority of the time here - particularly since they're a good chance that there would only be 5 people remaining after this hand.

Stars' payout structure is the same as Party - 50-30-20, though there are only 9 players, so I guess you could argue that the payout is a little less.

And not that it matters, I would've won the hand had I called, but I still got either 1st or 2nd here; I don't remember which.

[sng-sam]

At that buy in you have to give one or both of them credit for a big pair or AK...I don't like flipping coins for $200 but others may.

SAM

AGAIN GOOD LAYDOWN

[UMTerp]

[ QUOTE ]
At that buy in you have to give one or both of them credit for a big pair or AK...I don't like flipping coins for $200 but others may.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd gladly flip a coin getting 2:1 on my money, but I guess we need to quantify what the chances are that I was up against AA or KK there. The first all-in appeared unlikely (~20%?) to be one of those hands, but the second one sure looked like it.

[mackthefork]

If the big stack goes over the top mostly this means QQ or lower or AK, its difficult to put the first reraiser on a hand though. This is the same at 5+1 as it is at 200+15, I read your results now, I still don't know if i call or not, the first reraiser worries me a lot, I know i have the big stack beat 90% of the time.

Mack

[ekky]

2-1 on your money is awfully appetising here...but there is so much action its a definite tough spot

So much depends on your "read" of the big stack. Has he accumulated chips by winning races/slow playing/being crafty etc etc?

It has the stink of:

a) you raise UTG+1
b) shorter stack pushes. This is no real indicator of being stronger then QQ... the typical range would be 88--AA or AK/AQ s0000ted

The big stack therefore is where you have to really focus IMO.. if you think you have him beat... you should call.

In your position? I probably think and postulate and then ultimately lay it down, but i reckon you could take a coin out your pocket, heads you call.. tails you fold.

Its that close.

[runnerunner]

Unless I have a read that one of the two guys pushing is too tight to do this without AA or KK, I generally call here. Very often you call and see both players sharing outs with AJ,AQ or AK. Plus, I like to gamble!

[shejk]

I think you're giving them too much credit. I'd say you're at least 40% to triple up.

[sng-sam]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd gladly flip a coin getting 2:1 on my money, but I guess we need to quantify what the chances are that I was up against AA or KK there.

[/ QUOTE ]

precisely...you would HAVE to be VERY confident that it was just a coinflip otherwise as you knowyou are a 4 to 1 dog.

[Scuba Chuck]

The hands you posted for villain is precisely what I was thinking they probably had. Especially the first allin guy. That being said, remember they both cancel each other out and have limited possibilities to improve.

I don't have an opinion on the lay down. But the more you put your villains on aces (not AA), the more attractive a call becomes.