Raymer Commentary on ESPN2 right now (Wed - 11p EST)

[MicroBob]

I know some of you guys don't get over to the sillyness that is the WPT forum and that this post probably belongs over there.

But if you haven't seen the Raymer commentary of the 2004 final-table you should really check it out.

Really good stuff.

[PokerBob]

[ QUOTE ]
I know some of you guys don't get over to the sillyness that is the WPT forum and that this post probably belongs over there.

But if you haven't seen the Raymer commentary of the 2004 final-table you should really check it out.

Really good stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. It's interesting to hear all the stuff going through his head.

[Bartman387]

Thanks for the heads up, been wanting to see this!

[Yads]

For those of us who don't get ESPN2 is there a summary?

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
For those of us who don't get ESPN2 is there a summary?

[/ QUOTE ]

He is commenting on the play in between hands or as they are shown on the screen, talking about what he was thinking or analysing the play of other players. A summary wouldn't be of much value out of context.

My understanding is that his commentary is going to be part of the eventual DVD release.

[Wyers]

I've seen this in the past. Raymer's commentary was head and shoulders above the one Moneymaker taped following his win.

It shows the difference between these two guys and demonstrates that Moneymaker's win was dumb luck. When Moneymaker was talking about discovering Farha's massive tell... his "oreo cookie" if you will... priceless.

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
When Moneymaker was talking about discovering Farha's massive tell... his "oreo cookie" if you will... priceless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did I miss something there? What I was hearing was that if Moneymaker bet and Sammy played with his chips with his left hand, he was going to fold. That may make you feel a little better, but it doesn't win you any chips. Moneymaker's father was going on about it too. So what?

[Wyers]

I found in amusing that Moneymaker "discovered" this blatant tell on the part of Farha. Do you actually believe a player of Farha's experience would have such an obvious tell?... and that a relative n00b like Moneymaker would be the one to uncover it.

I think Moneymaker watched Rounders one too many time.

That's "so what".

EDIT: Look, the dude won the WSOP - good for him - I'm not taking anything away from his accomplishment. I give him his props for winning the Big One and for contributing to the poker boom with his role as the everyman. (I guess the latter is good for me/you/all of us).
I just thought his assessment of the hand and Farhas's tell was a little amusing and a bit of a stretch.

That's all...

[grimel]

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen this in the past. Raymer's commentary was head and shoulders above the one Moneymaker taped following his win.

It shows the difference between these two guys and demonstrates that Moneymaker's win was dumb luck. When Moneymaker was talking about discovering Farha's massive tell... his "oreo cookie" if you will... priceless.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forget the comparison to Moneymaker, Greg's commentary was head and shoulders above the ESPN experts. Their constant oh he's making a bad move when Greg was explaining the math behind why his calls were right exposed the great Norm Chad as a commentator.

[Jim Easton]

[ QUOTE ]
Look, the dude won the WSOP - good for him - I'm not taking anything away from his accomplishment.

[/ QUOTE ]

So when you said:

[ QUOTE ]
demonstrates that Moneymaker's win was dumb luck

[/ QUOTE ]

you meant it as a compliment? Attributing his win to dumb luck is trying to take something away from his win.

[AA suited]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For those of us who don't get ESPN2 is there a summary?

[/ QUOTE ]

He is commenting on the play in between hands or as they are shown on the screen, talking about what he was thinking or analysing the play of other players. A summary wouldn't be of much value out of context.

My understanding is that his commentary is going to be part of the eventual DVD release.

[/ QUOTE ]

isnt the 2004 wsop on DVD already? or a new version with Raymer's commentary?

[Bartman387]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For those of us who don't get ESPN2 is there a summary?

[/ QUOTE ]

He is commenting on the play in between hands or as they are shown on the screen, talking about what he was thinking or analysing the play of other players. A summary wouldn't be of much value out of context.

My understanding is that his commentary is going to be part of the eventual DVD release.

[/ QUOTE ]

isnt the 2004 wsop on DVD already? or a new version with Raymer's commentary?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, 2004 WSOP doesn't come out until june sometime I think

[Runner Runner]

I thought Raymer's commentary was frightening. It's kind of like giving every poker player watching a one hour exposure into the kind of stuff that gets discussed on these forums. We don't want that!! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Greg showed great class in the way he analyzed everyone's play , (even their obvious mistakes), and he also let everyone into the mind of a winning poker. My favorite Raymer plays that he discussed were (A) his call of an opponents allin bet with 55 after a little bit of table talk allowed him to understand that he wasn't a big dog and (B) the discussion about why he reraised an opponent only 500,000 when they had 700,000 remaining and there were other players remaining to act.

[Wyers]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Look, the dude won the WSOP - good for him - I'm not taking anything away from his accomplishment.

[/ QUOTE ]

So when you said:

[ QUOTE ]
demonstrates that Moneymaker's win was dumb luck

[/ QUOTE ]

you meant it as a compliment? Attributing his win to dumb luck is trying to take something away from his win.

[/ QUOTE ]


My God ,man...

First of all, the "dumb luck" statement was an off the cuff remark which I believe I clarified in the second post when I gave him his due - but I appreciate your dissection - nice work.

In spite of all that, I wouldn't completely back off the "dumb luck" statement. The guy won the title without any live play experience and mild to moderate online success.

That would kinda' be like me taking down the tournament. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Believe me, if I get anywhere near the money in a tournament such as that... there will be FAR more than a little "dumb luck" involved.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

Yes, but the thing about this "tell" was, it wasn't always accurate, as Moneymaker made one move based on it when Farha had a good hand.

[vindikation]

I missed it (it sounds great). It appears that they are going to replay it again next Tuesday:

2004 World Series of Poker
ESPN2 May 17 11:00pm (Pacific Time)
Limited Series/Sports, 60 Mins.
Episode #04013.
From Las Vegas.