Picked up a bad habit from Strasa2?

[J-Lo]

This is a $30+3, and i understand that jason did it when he was between short stack and 2nd stack. Is doing this in a $30+3 too risky. Same person called me ealrier w/ 77 when i pushed w/ KK w/ 8x BB at lvl 5.

Total number of players : 4
Seat 2: addicted777 (2805)
Seat 5: KGBALLERS (2275)
Seat 6: PokerPat05 (640)
Seat 7: Pfleghaar (2280)
addicted777 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to addicted777 [ 4h, Qh ]
KGBALLERS folds.
PokerPat05 folds.
Pfleghaar raises (600) to 600
addicted777 raises (2505) to 2805
addicted777 is all-In.


gimme your thoughts

[blackize]

You pushed with Q4 suited as the tentatively big stack? You are way behind most of his possible raising hands. Your only hope is that he was on a steal and will lay it down. My experience on those tables is that most opponents dont steal with hands worse than Q4 suited.

[Nick M]

[ QUOTE ]
Same person called me ealrier w/ 77 when i pushed w/ KK w/ 8x BB at lvl 5.


[/ QUOTE ]

i think you answered you're own question here. He is going to call you with anything decent...even with what he believes could be a flip.

[Freudian]

deleted (thought you reraised all-in on a push by small stack).

-----------------------------

I don't like this play. I don't think he folds enough for this to be profitable.

[Meatmaw]

I may not be remembering correctly, but didn't Jason also do it in response to an overbet (9x BB raise PF) figuring it couldn't be a monster PF hand?

As is it seems crucially read and image dependent as you are now in late blinds, standards have lowered, and you're pretty much pushing to make him fold (so I assume you're suggesting doing it with 23o as well). Hmm, also you're not exactly a monster stack. That aspect might tip the scale for me to not make this move even if you aren't as bad as 23o.

But again, depends on how much you've been pushing between your last KK push and now too.

[faquewdikhed]

The short stack had 2 BB

That should have given you fold equity.

However, imagine the joy and surprise that the short stack experienced when he saw you were going to bust with Q4.

I think you gotta lay this one down.

[J-Lo]

Yeah, he flipped over ATs and i got no help... argh! do thses people not realize who they are playing against? Once, just once, i wish the cards broke even. He called me w/ ATs-- do u belive that?

[Nick M]

look on the bright side...you were live hahahaha.

[Voltron87]

I make plays like this when I have a bigger cheap lead and he has less chips, but this is a crappy spot. I will push all day with q4 here but not against a raise which signifies strength. So it's good to be pushing against these guys when someone has 2BB but not here.

[1C5]

I know the problem. You play 33s and he plays 215s. The guy in 33s would have called with 22.

[microbet]

I think the biggest problem is that the same person called you with a less than premium hand before. Sure, he saw you had KK then and maybe if you haven't done anything aggressive since he might believe you.

Second problem is that it is a $33, not a $215. I haven't played a $215, but the theory goes in a $33 you are more likely to get paid with your KK and called on your Q4.

Another think is in the example from Strassa's recent post (if I know which one you mean) he had more than twice the stack size of anyone else, so if he lost he was still 2nd stack.

That said, you should have had tremendous FE here and I don't think it was a terrible move.

[TheUsher]

Might I add that this move works much better when you're 4 handed with the short stack in the BB. Usually the raiser in that situation has an ok hand, but not good enough to stand the heat of an all-in, or he would have done it in the first place to isolate the short stack. Pay close attention to the stack sizes of yourself/opponent who raised too. In your situation in the hand above, it was completely different as you're going over the top of a mini-raise from the SB while you're in the BB.

This is the hand I'm referring to while making this post:

***** Hand History for Game 2032013855 *****
300/600 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 12108574) - Wed May 11 05:00:50 EDT 2005
Table Table 11087 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: TEPop84 (1470)
Seat 4: fawnskin (2375)
Seat 7: strassa2 (5375)
Seat 9: yifan (780)
strassa2 posts small blind (150)
yifan posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to strassa2 [ 5s, 9c ]
TEPop84 folds.
fawnskin raises (600) to 600
strassa2 raises (5225) to 5375
strassa2 is all-In.
yifan folds.
fawnskin folds.
Creating Main Pot with $6275 with strassa2
** Summary **
Main Pot: 6275
TEPop84 balance 1470, didn't bet (folded)
fawnskin balance 1775, lost 600 (folded)
strassa2 balance 6275, bet 5375, collected 6275, net +900
yifan balance 480, lost 300 (folded)

Raiser here usually says "I just want to take short stack's money, if you raise me with anything I'll have to fold."



Edit: If you're talking about this hand:

***** Hand History for Game 2032001165 *****
100/200 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 12108574) - Wed May 11 04:54:03 EDT 2005
Table Table 11087 (Real Money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: TEPop84 (1760)
Seat 4: fawnskin (3325)
Seat 7: strassa2 (3620)
Seat 9: yifan (1295)
yifan posts small blind (50)
TEPop84 posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to strassa2 [ 8d, 5s ]
fawnskin raises (900) to 900
strassa2 raises (3620) to 3620
strassa2 is all-In.
yifan folds.
TEPop84 folds.
fawnskin folds.
Creating Main Pot with $4670 with strassa2
** Summary **
Main Pot: 4670
TEPop84 balance 1660, lost 100 (folded)
fawnskin balance 2425, lost 900 (folded)
strassa2 balance 4670, bet 3620, collected 4670, net +1050 [ 8d 5s ] [ high card eight -- 8d,5s ]
yifan balance 1245, lost 50 (folded)


That was most likely a good read so don't go trying that now with your beautiful stack in a 33 or something.

[durron597]

I tried this earlier today with 64o, stacks were approx 5500 (me), 5000 (him), 1700, 1700, 1700.... he raised the second hand in a row, I pushed over the top, he thought forever and called with 77. But I still ended up taking third /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[J-Lo]

How about this hand, the villain has been min raising my BB and me folding 2 times so far. He thought about it for a LONG time, but finally called w/ A8o but i sucked out on him... sucker

300/600 TOURNEYTEXASHTGAMETABLE (NL) (TOURNAMENT 12129128) - WED MAY 11 23:32:30 EDT 2005
Table Table 15019 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: RunrRunrSean (2225)
Seat 3: jzieg2313 (1850)
Seat 4: peugha (2090)
Seat 9: booradlye83 (1515)
Seat 10: absmith4 (320)
booradlye83 posts small blind (150)
absmith4 posts big blind (300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to booradlye83 [ Ah, 7s ]
RunrRunrSean folds.
jzieg2313 folds.
peugha raises (600) to 600
booradlye83 raises (1365) to 1515
booradlye83 is all-In.
absmith4 calls (20)
absmith4 is all-In.

[microbet]

This must work for you sometimes? Anyway in this case he put in 600 and only had to call 700 more, in the first case he put in 600 and had to put in 1700 more and that was the bubble with a short stack.

[J-Lo]

[ QUOTE ]
This must work for you sometimes? Anyway in this case he put in 600 and only had to call 700 more, in the first case he put in 600 and had to put in 1700 more and that was the bubble with a short stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

He called 915 more... He coulda easily folded had 1200 chips on the bubble. Man, this gets really frustrating when plays like this will work against me, but i cant use 'em.

[Scuba Chuck]

Hand 1 is good SNG end game play. I hope he's not comparing his hand to this one.

[raptor517]

this is a GREAT play in the higher buyin sngs. in a 33, a person raised, so hes gonna get the rest of his chips in. in a 109+, this play is VERY strong. holla