JustDerek
05-11-2005, 05:37 PM
Am I nuts, or is my college roommate (who taught me to play poker) arguing against fundamental no-limit strategy? Consider the following excerpts from our email exchange of the last couple of days:
HIM:
10 player single-table tourney [$10+1, online], 5 players left. I'm third in chips with 2200
The guy who's second with 2400 raises before the flop. I have 99 and go with him.
Flop 9 3 2.
I check, he bets. I raise. He re-raises to put me all in.
He shows AA
Turn comes A
Kill me now.
ME:
Well, it's no fun to get drawn out on, but... you misplayed the hand. Why slowplay it when you flopped top set? Since he raised preflop, I'm assuming that you put him on a big pair.
On the flop you KNEW you had the best hand at that point, so you've got to move in and take it away from him. Checking it to him gains you nothing and possibly LOSES you $$$, because you're leaving your hand unprotected by not charging him to play. If you'd bet into him with a good number of chips, then he's on the defensive. He'd have to worry about whether you had the set, and if he's not an idiot, he knows that his aces would then be a major dog.
The point is, YOU should have been the one making the all-in bet. If he calls, then you're better than 5:1 to win. Of course, we know how the 5:1 shot came out, but that he was freakin' lucky. Maybe he would have called you anyway, who knows. But you see the point.
HIM:
Well, I have to disagree with you, but mostly because I was playing the person, not the cards. I knew he was an aggressive player and would respond as he did. I wanted to go all-in, and whether it happened on the flop or the turn, I knew it would happen with him, assuming he had a hand, which I was pretty sure he did.
I did put him on the high pair or AK/AQ. The worst hand (for me) he could have had was 2 5, but I was sure he wasn't in on that. So, I knew with my hand he would have to hit twice or hit one of two possible cards.
ME:
[ QUOTE ]
because I was playing the person, not the cards. I knew he was an aggressive player and would respond as he did. I wanted to go all-in, and whether it happened on the flop or the turn
[/ QUOTE ]
But you let HIM put YOU all-in. You didn't use the advantage having the better hand to force him to make a tough decision. See what I mean? A set is a strong hand, but not an unbreakable one (esp w/ 2 cards to come). It's not a powerful enough hand to trap with.
HIM:
Maybe not. But with that flop, I felt it was strong enough to trap with. Also, at that point, I was 50/50 on whether or not he had a pair (needing to hit the prayer) or AK/AQ (needing two prayer runners). My goal was to get as many of his chips in the pot as possible. Which I did. Maybe not the smartest move in the book, but one I'd make again in the same situation.
HIM:
10 player single-table tourney [$10+1, online], 5 players left. I'm third in chips with 2200
The guy who's second with 2400 raises before the flop. I have 99 and go with him.
Flop 9 3 2.
I check, he bets. I raise. He re-raises to put me all in.
He shows AA
Turn comes A
Kill me now.
ME:
Well, it's no fun to get drawn out on, but... you misplayed the hand. Why slowplay it when you flopped top set? Since he raised preflop, I'm assuming that you put him on a big pair.
On the flop you KNEW you had the best hand at that point, so you've got to move in and take it away from him. Checking it to him gains you nothing and possibly LOSES you $$$, because you're leaving your hand unprotected by not charging him to play. If you'd bet into him with a good number of chips, then he's on the defensive. He'd have to worry about whether you had the set, and if he's not an idiot, he knows that his aces would then be a major dog.
The point is, YOU should have been the one making the all-in bet. If he calls, then you're better than 5:1 to win. Of course, we know how the 5:1 shot came out, but that he was freakin' lucky. Maybe he would have called you anyway, who knows. But you see the point.
HIM:
Well, I have to disagree with you, but mostly because I was playing the person, not the cards. I knew he was an aggressive player and would respond as he did. I wanted to go all-in, and whether it happened on the flop or the turn, I knew it would happen with him, assuming he had a hand, which I was pretty sure he did.
I did put him on the high pair or AK/AQ. The worst hand (for me) he could have had was 2 5, but I was sure he wasn't in on that. So, I knew with my hand he would have to hit twice or hit one of two possible cards.
ME:
[ QUOTE ]
because I was playing the person, not the cards. I knew he was an aggressive player and would respond as he did. I wanted to go all-in, and whether it happened on the flop or the turn
[/ QUOTE ]
But you let HIM put YOU all-in. You didn't use the advantage having the better hand to force him to make a tough decision. See what I mean? A set is a strong hand, but not an unbreakable one (esp w/ 2 cards to come). It's not a powerful enough hand to trap with.
HIM:
Maybe not. But with that flop, I felt it was strong enough to trap with. Also, at that point, I was 50/50 on whether or not he had a pair (needing to hit the prayer) or AK/AQ (needing two prayer runners). My goal was to get as many of his chips in the pot as possible. Which I did. Maybe not the smartest move in the book, but one I'd make again in the same situation.