Eudaimonia plays like a twit [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Bodhi

05-11-2005, 03:10 PM

Here we go! Some of my hands from an awful -25BB session at 1/2 6-max.

Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB is a rock

Preflop: Hero is MP with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5 BB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, UTG folds, Hero caps, BB calls.

River: (14.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets $6.75 (All-In), Hero calls.

Final Pot: 20.25 BB

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Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

No reads on the villain

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
4 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (2 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 5 BB

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Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Both villains are fish

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

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Absolute Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Villain is a 2+2er

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

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Which hand is the worst? Which one screams the most that the hero doesn't know what he's doing at 6-max?

krishanleong

05-11-2005, 03:15 PM

1-fine
2-call down. You can't fold top pair heads up.
3-fine. You should consider checking the turn but a bet is fine.
4-raise the turn, check the river.

Krishan

tiltaholic

05-11-2005, 03:16 PM

hand 2 is the worst.
raise preflop.
i would see a showdown...

edit to say:
i think 1 and 3 are fine, and 4 is not very bad, if bad. sometimes i check the turn on 3, sometimes i bet the river. in hand four, i sometimes raise the turn, or the flop. (i think raising the turn is better). i dunno. i think i pay off hands like this a lot.

Bodhi

05-11-2005, 03:19 PM

That's very interesting, because it's the hand I thought I played the best (results orientation rearing its ugly head). Villain showed KJ. You really suggest raising pf with K7?

krishanleong

05-11-2005, 03:26 PM

tiltaholic

05-11-2005, 03:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That's very interesting, because it's the hand I thought I played the best (results orientation rearing its ugly head). Villain showed KJ. You really suggest raising pf with K7?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok well first it depends on the read of the SB.
second, when i play shorthanded, (and i suck shorthanded), but when i play, I don't let the fools open complete their SB w/o a fight. that is a sign of either tricky play, or not-accustomed-to-proper-shorthanded-play play. most of the time, villian is not being tricky. i raise when i have a hand w/good high card strength to play HU.

Siegmund

05-11-2005, 03:37 PM

Worst? Hand 2.

Hand 1 I wouldn't have played at all (only as a steal or on button after 4 limpers at a full table) but the rest looks OK. The rock isn't betting unless he has a piece of the flop, which means there is exactly one hand in the whole deck that beats you, /images/graemlins/club.gifA/images/graemlins/club.gifJ:. He should raise that and JJ/QQ preflop but some rocks don't; I think 99 or 77 is his most likely hand.

We need to know who Villain is on hand 2. Is he an idiot who doesn't know he needs to raise with a playing hand from button or SB? Or is he sneaky, and raises with moderate hands and trap-completes with premium hands? If the former, the fold is awful. If the latter, you are likely beaten, but consider calling it down anyway (compare with hand 4 where another poster advises taking this villain's line with an underpair.)

Hand 3 looks like overplayed overcards, and is something I am trying to do less of... but if these are calling stations you might still be OK. Very hard to know when to give these up. At least you didn't get popped.

Hand 4 you just don't know where you are. I would checkraise the flop. If I get 3-bet on the flop or raised when I lead the turn, I give up. If he has overcards I expect him to fold the turn.

Bodhi

05-11-2005, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
We need to know who Villain is on hand 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. Like I said though, no reads because I played very few hands with this guy.

The rest of your comments are very helpful, thankyou. Hand #4 could use a lot of improvement, definitely. I saw this as a WAWB sort of hand and wanted to let the villain bluff away if that's what he was doing (I didn't know he was a 2+2er at the time). Now that I look at it, you're right that raising the flop or showing some kind of aggression is much more appropriate to a 6max table.

tijean

05-11-2005, 03:48 PM

Hand 1: Looks good. He's almost all-in, and a lot of hands are going to like this board. I'm not giving him credit for the nut flush until he shows it.

Hand 2: This is my least favorite. First, raise PF. Second, I don't like folding TP HU. He might have a 3, he might have a K with a low kicker and think you're trying to steal. With no read, it might be a pure bluff. I'd call down.

Hand 3: I play it the same. I'd have preferred at least one fold on the flop, but you gotta take the second shot. When they both call the turn, I let it go.

Hand 4: I hate 22. I hate when someone calls down my AK with an underpair even more. Given your read, I think this is the right play.

scotty34

05-11-2005, 03:49 PM

Everyone seems to hate hand 2, but I honestly don't think its that bad. A preflop raise is questionable, yes, but a check isn't terrible I don't think.

With his C/R on the turn, we are getting 5:1 immediately on the call, plus we are going to have to call another bet on the river in all likelihood. With implied odds, we are getting 6:2. With a C/R on the turn from SB, I think we have to give him the benefit of the doubt without any reads. I don't think we are good enough here to make a calldown profitable.

SlantNGo

05-11-2005, 04:01 PM

Hand 1: Fold pre-flop. Kxs is not a very good hand in 6-max.

Hand 2: I'm 50/50 on raising this pre-flop. Make it K9 and I'll raise it. The hand plays out much differently with a PFR (I'd be more likely to call down if that was the case), but given the PF check, I don't think folding is terrible. I don't mind either a fold or a calldown.

Hand 3: Fine. Many fish at Abs 0.5/1 6-max like to call the flop with junk then fold the turn.

Hand 4: I wouldn't play this like a WA/WB because even if you are ahead, Villain is drawing to 6 live outs. Either I'd dump it on the flop or check/raise the flop then lead the turn.

I think Hand 4 is the worst.

MrWookie47

05-11-2005, 04:25 PM

This is something I've been wondering about my 6 max game recently. You raise K7o in that situation? That's what I used to do, but I found that it wasn't working for me except against very weak tight opponents. Recently, I've been having a lot of success by checking my mediocre hands when the SB open-completes (raising pocket pairs or something with some good high card strength). On the flop, I bet automatically if checked to, not matter what I have. The SB folds a very large percentage of the time. If he bets into me, I can reevaluate. I found that my fold equity this way is far higher than if I raise preflop. I'm not sure if villains are more likely to call after a PFR because of the larger pot size or if they think I'm less likely to be bluffing if I've only checked in the BB or whatever, but it seems to work better for me. I'm interested to hear a good argument for raising, however, or at least if your results have been different.

For the rest of this hand, I probably would have called down against an unknown, but I'd expect to be shown trips.

Hand 1 is fine, hand 3 is fine, and I probably would have raised either the flop or the turn in hand 4 against an aggressive opponent who could very likely be betting UI overcards. A turn check/raise would have scared him quite a bit, even if he was holding an overpair, because of how many passive players play trips this way. I know this because I was the 2+2er in question.

Entity

05-11-2005, 04:29 PM

I actually hate #1 preflop. I'm slightly more ok with it if you're on the button but really, K4s is meh. Postflop is fine.

I'd raise #2 preflop.

I might not bet the turn in #3.

I'm not really sure about the river call in #4 if villain is a 2+2er.

Rob