1000 tournies, question about moving on up

[Maulik]

I'm Going to Europe: need your help (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=2366256 &Forum=All_Forums&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Mai n=2345027&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=25057&dat erange=1&newerval=1&newertype=w&olderval=&oldertyp e=&bodyprev=#Post2366256)

Like I said in that thread, I'll be playing lots of SNGs split between the $20s day & $30s night. After playing nearly 1000 (that's the goal raptor is making me shoot for) is that likely to be enough to get me to play the $50s afterward?

For those who want to join the challenge I'll start that tonight and perhaps a thread too =]

brilliant responses only please, lol.

[jcm4ccc]

Screw the 30s. Play the 20s during the day and 50s during the night (if your bankroll is $2000 or more). My ROI in the 20s is about 0.20 during the day. My ROI in the 50s is about 0.17 during the night. The 50s is a small sample size (about 115), but I can tell you that I feel very comfortable playing the 50s at night. The extra chips are nice, and there always seems to be 2 or 3 fish swimming in any one tournament. I hate playing them during the day (some of the $215 players seem to slum in the $50s during the day).

I just find the $30s very tough--good players, fewer chips. Very small sample size, since I got out of there pretty fast.

I'm not saying that the 50s are easier than the 30s. I'm saying that the 50s at night are easier than the 30s during the day.

[Maulik]

Hmm, that's an interesting consideration and I had not really considered it. Part of playing 1k sngs was to plug all those leaks that I had and be ready for the next step the 50s. But I'll consider that if others think this is a good idea.

[Scuba Chuck]

Follow bankroll guidelines. The only other thing that matter is your confidence at higher levels.

Scuba

[microbet]

Well, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but my plan is just to move up when I have the bankroll (theoretically I have the money, but I keep gambling money seperate from real money - I have a family and all). I'm just being conservative about the bankroll (waiting for 60 buyins for the $55s) and will have a reasonable point at which I'll go back to the $33s if I have to (about 70 buyins for the $33s).

You're passing me up and it will be awfully hard for me to catch up. I think I started the $33s before you and I've only gotten in about 100 of them.

Of course, our situations are very different. You can probably make a living at the $33s or maybe even lower. For me, this is just a hobby until I'm at least in the $109s, if I ever get there.

Good luck.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
Screw the 30s. Play the 20s during the day and 50s during the night (if your bankroll is $2000 or more). My ROI in the 20s is about 0.20 during the day. My ROI in the 50s is about 0.17 during the night. The 50s is a small sample size (about 115), but I can tell you that I feel very comfortable playing the 50s at night. The extra chips are nice, and there always seems to be 2 or 3 fish swimming in any one tournament. I hate playing them during the day (some of the $215 players seem to slum in the $50s during the day).

I just find the $30s very tough--good players, fewer chips. Very small sample size, since I got out of there pretty fast.

I'm not saying that the 50s are easier than the 30s. I'm saying that the 50s at night are easier than the 30s during the day.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience, the biggest difference from 20s-30s-50s is the 800 vs 1000 starting chips. I don't like to mix and match 800 and 1000 chip games.

Of course, I do it anyway because I have no discipline, but I definately do better when I stick to 1 type of game.

Maybe other people don't feel 800 vs 1000 make much difference, but that's my 2 cents.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Screw the 30s. Play the 20s during the day and 50s during the night (if your bankroll is $2000 or more). My ROI in the 20s is about 0.20 during the day. My ROI in the 50s is about 0.17 during the night. The 50s is a small sample size (about 115), but I can tell you that I feel very comfortable playing the 50s at night. The extra chips are nice, and there always seems to be 2 or 3 fish swimming in any one tournament. I hate playing them during the day (some of the $215 players seem to slum in the $50s during the day).

I just find the $30s very tough--good players, fewer chips. Very small sample size, since I got out of there pretty fast.

I'm not saying that the 50s are easier than the 30s. I'm saying that the 50s at night are easier than the 30s during the day.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience, the biggest difference from 20s-30s-50s is the 800 vs 1000 starting chips. I don't like to mix and match 800 and 1000 chip games.

Of course, I do it anyway because I have no discipline, but I definately do better when I stick to 1 type of game.

Maybe other people don't feel 800 vs 1000 make much difference, but that's my 2 cents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had no intention of mixing and matching stack sizes, I think its terrible idea too. Based on the post in regard to playing around the good players on the $30s I am not sure if that holds enough merit to just play between the $20s and $50s.

[Newt_Buggs]

if you're worried about improving in order to move up limits and build up confidence you may want to play the 30s during the day and night and to get used to the tougher competition.

I like the suggestion of playing the 50s just at night though, maybe thats something I'll try. I need to get out of these stupid 30s too.

If you are still going to be 8 tabeling the 30s as much as you plan let me know your SN so I can stay off your table.

[kevstreet]

What's your PP screen name? I'll give you a "holla" on the $20s and $30s.

[jcm4ccc]

[ QUOTE ]
I had no intention of mixing and matching stack sizes, I think its terrible idea too. Based on the post in regard to playing around the good players on the $30s I am not sure if that holds enough merit to just play between the $20s and $50s.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't seem that big a deal to me. The extra 200 chips buy you a a little bit more time to catch a good hand or push in a more opportune spot.

So when you 4-table, sometimes you are short-stacked and sometimes you have the big-stack. Sometimes the big stack is bullying you, and sometimes the big stack is passive. Are you saying that it's difficult to adjust to different tables and different strategies? These issues seems much more critical than the fact that you have 800 chips or 1000 chips on Level 1.

[Phil Van Sexton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I had no intention of mixing and matching stack sizes, I think its terrible idea too. Based on the post in regard to playing around the good players on the $30s I am not sure if that holds enough merit to just play between the $20s and $50s.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't seem that big a deal to me. The extra 200 chips buy you a a little bit more time to catch a good hand or push in a more opportune spot.

So when you 4-table, sometimes you are short-stacked and sometimes you have the big-stack. Sometimes the big stack is bullying you, and sometimes the big stack is passive. Are you saying that it's difficult to adjust to different tables and different strategies? These issues seems much more critical than the fact that you have 800 chips or 1000 chips on Level 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

It more of an issue later. When there are 4 players left, the average stack will have 500 more chips.

In a 800 chip game, if you get 2500 chips, you can often start thinking about vegas and the fxxking mirage. In a 1000 chip game, you have more work left.

It's just an adjustment of your internal clock. Again, I'm sure many people don't care.

[Vee Quiva]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just being conservative about the bankroll (waiting for 60 buyins for the $55s)

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it just me, or does this seem like a fairly low bankroll considering you are playing 8 tournaments at a time?

Personally I don't know how you can play at all when you have 5 or 6 tables left with 3-5 players on everyone one. I would want the time to make notes and have reads on my opponents.

Good luck with the challenge though. I had a challenge when I first started on Party Poker to earn enough for a new set of Callaway Irons. I knocked that out in about 3 months and I love 'em. I haven't looked back since.

[Maulik]

I appreciate your responses and am considering the following:

buy / buyin = AM / peak hrs

20s / 30s
playing all 30s
30s / 50s

I probably shouldn't play the $20s to increase my ability. So I'm considering playins all 30s simply to get better which will likely lead to a lower ROI but larger confidence? Any, new thoughts?

when I post the offical challenge, I'll give my screen names, etc.

[beeyjay]

darnit this whole thread sounds like i'm about to get swamped in the 50s with a dickload of 2+2ers. now i'm going to have to move up.

[1C5]

when are you starting this challenge and how many hours do you plan to play/day?

4 or 8 tabling?

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]
darnit this whole thread sounds like i'm about to get swamped in the 50s with a dickload of 2+2ers. now i'm going to have to move up.

[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't played past the 30s yet, but it seems like as soon as you move past the 20s the tables at every level are going to usually have atleast a couple of good players/2+2ers. I'm not ready to move up to the 50s anyway, I think I'll look over my stats at the 30s (which aren't that good so far) and maybe post them for comments.

[arod15]

I will play 3 table 200NL 6 person and half the time and i guarrentee i bet your tournament results. Too much variation in torunies. Care to wager on the outcome???? Loser pays for others next AC trip. HOLLA, ps i wish you luck buddy i hope you win 2K so we can go to VEGAS BABY VEGAS

[beeyjay]

I'd say I normally recognize about 1-3 good multi tablers at my tables in the 55s. Of course some are better than others though. A good sng player at this level has a lot of exploitable weaknesses though. I play almost exclusively during the day too and at night the games tend to be a lot different.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
when are you starting this challenge and how many hours do you plan to play/day?

4 or 8 tabling?

[/ QUOTE ]

likely tonight or tomorrow morning, 8 tabling.

I need to play 8.45 hrs/day for 11 to make 1k touraments.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
I will play 3 table 200NL 6 person and half the time and i guarrentee i bet your tournament results. Too much variation in torunies. Care to wager on the outcome???? Loser pays for others next AC trip. HOLLA, ps i wish you luck buddy i hope you win 2K so we can go to VEGAS BABY VEGAS

[/ QUOTE ]

the goal is higher, 20% on 1000 tournies. I should make $500 in rake, I only have rakeback in one account, which sucks.

[Degen]

[ QUOTE ]
Screw the 30s. Play the 20s during the day and 50s during the night (if your bankroll is $2000 or more). My ROI in the 20s is about 0.20 during the day. My ROI in the 50s is about 0.17 during the night. The 50s is a small sample size (about 115), but I can tell you that I feel very comfortable playing the 50s at night. The extra chips are nice, and there always seems to be 2 or 3 fish swimming in any one tournament. I hate playing them during the day (some of the $215 players seem to slum in the $50s during the day).

I just find the $30s very tough--good players, fewer chips. Very small sample size, since I got out of there pretty fast.

I'm not saying that the 50s are easier than the 30s. I'm saying that the 50s at night are easier than the 30s during the day.


[/ QUOTE ]

Please take it from someone with far more tourneys logged at the 55's and 33's than you JM...you are way off on both accounts.

The 33's are where the fishies swim and the 55's are much tougher to beat. You can find a good table/good run at the 55's and a bad table/bad run at the 33's but i definately wouldn't say the 55's are better than the 33's.

Its a much different game Maulik, you have to make a lot of adjustments, it took me about 100 tourneys to stop playing them wrong-more chips changes things.




Andre

[Degen]

wow...i remember a couple months ago Scuba you were saying

'difference between your ears'
'55's play like the 22's'

do you still beleive this? are you still at the 55's or did you go higher?


Andre

[Degen]

i like 2+2ers at my table...they love folding their blinds /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Andre

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
wow...i remember a couple months ago Scuba you were saying

'difference between your ears'
'55's play like the 22's'

[/ QUOTE ]

I generally still believe these comments. The analysis is based on the fact that players like to battle still. In general hand ranges are different when putting villain on calling ranges. Your AK is no longer gonna get called by A2, but might get called by 33.

That being said, the point is about battling. What's the best play when people battle? Furthermore, you will come across enough players frequently enough for your notes to start to really work.

I logged 500+ $55s last month. My record is not exemplary, +11.1% is all. It was the most frustrating month of the year for me so far. Anyway, my point is, I found the $33s tighter than the $55s.

Currently I'm mixing in the $33s, $55s, and $109s depending on time of day and other factors.

Should Maulik move up? IMO, it matters on his confidence (assuming BR guidelines followed). If he feels that he can slaughter the $33s, then do like the Jeffersons' "movin on up, to the top...."

Scuba

[Bonafone]

Although I haven't played too many tournaments, I agree with Degan when he said it took about 100 tournaments to adjust properly. Some of this is very well due to variance but I only finished in the money ~33% and after my first 500 I was around 41%.

I actually never played the 30's, skipped right past them, but you can find some very soft 50's, and also some very tough tables. One word of advice is don't sit down with too many multi-tablers, they tend to be better than average and will hurt your profit.

[Maulik]

I'm going to grind 400 $33s and then consider moving up based on my run and confidence. I have taken nearly two weeks off to bang out some stuff for classes.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
I appreciate your responses and am considering the following:

buy / buyin = AM / peak hrs

20s / 30s
playing all 30s
30s / 50s

I probably shouldn't play the $20s to increase my ability? So I'm considering playins all 30s simply to get better which will likely lead to a lower ROI but larger confidence?



[/ QUOTE ]

Let me add, my goal in playing 1k tournaments is to win $. ROI is less important than becoming a solid player. That said at the end of this madness I'd like to close in on playing the $50s. That said, should I simply play the $33s during peak/nonpeak hours?

-Thanks!

[raptor517]

ayt bro, heres the deal. if u got the roll, play the 55s. i cant imagine worse play than at that level. i havent played a level BELOW the 55s in a long long time, but its pretty awful. the 109s are awful too. if u can stomach a bit of a swing, i highly recommend you 135781353089 table the 55s. god the play is awful there. anyways, good luck with yer challenge. holla

[Degen]

cool cool thanks...care to share any secrets on this:

[ QUOTE ]
depending on time of day and other factors.

[/ QUOTE ]

??


Andre

[Apathy]

I don't understand how you are going to have the BR for moving up after going on a trip to Europe. I will give you the same advice I usually give to people that want to move up... Take shots. Play 4 or 5 50s today, see how you like them. When you move up play less tables.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand how you are going to have the BR for moving up after going on a trip to Europe. I will give you the same advice I usually give to people that want to move up... Take shots. Play 4 or 5 50s today, see how you like them. When you move up play less tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not cashing out the entire bankroll to go to Europe.

I guess I'll just see if this is really easy at the 30s it will be time to bump it up.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
cool cool thanks...care to share any secrets on this:


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

depending on time of day and other factors.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, these aren't secrets per se(at least not poker secrets). Other factors is code word for facts of life. For example, how probable is it life will interupt me while 4 tabling? (I have a 8 months pregnant wife and 19 month son). If there is any probability at all, I'll play the $33s.

OP, Apathy has said it best. Take shots at the higher levels, don't commit yourself. The biggest difference you see when moving up is the variance. In the $33s and $55s I've often had streaks of 9-12 out of the money. That will be a thousand dollars + on the $109s. Yuk. That will be two thousand dollars + on the $215s. You see my point.