HLSP Stud8 3 high str8 fl cards

[Phat Mack]

In High-Low-Split Poker, zee calls three high cards to a consecutive straight flush "some of the better starting hands."

He goes on: " You can play these hands against several low hands, and you can take cards off. When you catch blanks, you can usually go to fifth or sixth street--unless there is a great deal of jamming--as long as your opponents' boards do not look too threatening."

I don't see a lot of these hands, but have never liked playing them--probably because I don't know how to. One quibble I have always had, probably left over from the declare days, is that they always present a high door card that negates opportunities for deception.

I'd like to hear from people who like these hands and have a system for playing them--I really don't have a very good handle on them.

Let's take (9/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif) J/images/graemlins/club.gif as an example. Cards are live.

How many low hands would you like to play against?
Would another high card in the pot, let's say a K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, disuade you from playing?

If you catch a complete blank on 4th street, when would you continue and when would you drop? How about if you caught an off-suit 7 or Q?

If you miss 4th street, when would you call a bet on a weakly-hit 5th street? Let's say you caught the off-suit Q or 7. How about a 2/images/graemlins/club.gif? How about a Jack?

(I really don't know what is meant by a "great deal" of jamming in the book's statement.)

Do these hands play better or worse as the opposition improves? It would seem to me that against clueless opponents, they would be "hit big or fold" in the early going since it would be hard to move with them.

[TheShootah]

I thought he meant cards like A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif, where you may have a chance to pick up big pairs too, as well as straights and flushes. The hand you gave would probably lose even it makes a pair of jacks. I would definitely see fifth with this hand if I brick for a small bet, but I think I would drop it if the low boards developed straights or already made flush draws and such. It seems like in those situations you would definitely be behind for high and only be playing for half the pot, which you are behind for. It seems like 5th street is the place to drop these hands although if the hand develops to where it looks like no dangerous lows are in and the high hand is a pair of queens(or something else where I can catch an over), I would probably take a card off on 5th for a bet too. These hands are kinda tough to play in my opinion because they look so good you want to just keep calling bets.....or maybe that's just me. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[FeliciaLee]

I like these hands, but I like 678s much better. With 678s you disguise your hand so much that you can almost always get a bigger pot.

This is how I play in a cash game:

When I am dealt something like 9TJs, I'm hoping the jack is my doorcard, so that my opponents put me on a pair of jacks. I am also hoping that there are not a lot of dead suits out, nor eights and queens. I will probably play if there are no more than two clubs out, and preferably low clubs, and maybe no more than one of my straight cards needed. If, in addition to that, there are lots of 9TJ's dead, I'll probably just toss it. Since you are going to take this hand far, it is going to cost you if you chase a lot of dead cards to the river.

So say you are in a good position, with lots of live cards. Most of the time, I will not complete, unless I am in last position, have the highest doorcard, or feel that the pot will be HU. Really, though, it is so dependent on the situation. Position is key, table image means something, and the individual table dynamics are important.

As far as a king goes (your question), this would not keep me from playing, but might keep me from completing on third, if the king was behind me. If the king limped, I might complete it myself. Once again, this is very subjective due to table dynamics.

I would almost always take on off on fourth, unless like 3 of my live cards fell on other boards and made my opponents' hands look even stronger. Usually they are going low, but sometimes they are high, and you just know that they caught well, making my hand even more dead than before (buried dead cards).

Yes, if you catch a club on fifth you pretty much have to go all the way, unless you feel you are drawing dead.

Jamming means that someone on one side of you has a good high, someone on the other side just made their low. They are whip sawing you in between. Bet, raise, re-raise, cap. You are in the middle with this drawing hand, and they are forcing you to call four bets on each round to try to prevent you from drawing out on either one of them. It's a tough position to be in, especially if you have something like a four-staight flush to a wheel (a hand I played at Foxwoods), and just keep blanking out. It can cost you a lot of money to draw to these monsters, but when they get there, whooooboy, big scooper!

As your Stud 8 game improves, you will get a better feel for when a 3-straight flush is a premium hand, and when it is tossable. Nothing will help you save experience in this situation, because it is so dependent on position and table dynamics, not to mention stakes and other factors you could add in.

Good luck!

Felicia /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought he meant cards like A /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif, where you may have a chance to pick up big pairs too, as well as straights and flushes.

[/ QUOTE ]

That could very well be. I re-read this book whenever I find a good stud8 game, but that only happens once in a blue moon. I'm working my way through it now, and when I'm finished I'll probably have better idea of the concept.

[Phat Mack]

Thanks! A very well-written and well-reasoned response!