JJ vs Maniac

[tomtemor]

I'm not sure If I played this one right, so I'd like to hear what others think. I don't have a read on MP1, but Button is a maniac (VPIP;80. PFraise;35. He also seems to love over beting the pot.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 ($23.75)
MP3 ($13.15)
CO ($24.4)
Button ($38.1)
SB ($24.25)
Hero ($23.9)
UTG ($32.25)
UTG+1 ($30.5)
UTG+2 ($24.75)
MP1 ($35.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $4.75, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $4.

I decide to only call here. I think I have the best hand here, but a re-raise would probably slow Button down. MP1 also decides to call which I didn't like at all. Big raises was pretty standard for button when holding KQ, AK, AQ, AJ.

Flop: ($15.35) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $15</font>, Hero calls $18.90 (All-In), MP1 folds, Button calls $3.90.

Since I think there's a really good chance I'm best here I check and wait for Buttons very likely all in. And there it is, I throw all my chips in there and hope that MP1 will fold. At this point I think Button holds AK, AQ, KQ with a diamond.

Turn: ($53.15) A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: ($53.15) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $53.15

[TreyOfLight]

Preflop, your hand is probably best and probably ain't gettin any better. Put all the money in.

[tomtemor]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop, your hand is probably best and probably ain't gettin any better. Put all the money in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if I expect the maniac to fold pre-flop, but commit all his chips if we get to the flop?

[TreyOfLight]

[ QUOTE ]
Even if I expect the maniac to fold pre-flop, but commit all his chips if we get to the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if the maniac tells you he has six months to live and just wants to push as many flops as possible in that time, then flips over two undercards and turns into a werewolf, you still have to reraise preflop, because of the third player in there you don't want.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop, your hand is probably best and probably ain't gettin any better. Put all the money in.

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you assume that his hand is best? MP1 made a solid raise before the maniac reraised...

re-reraising with JJ here is chip spewing

[TreyOfLight]

[ QUOTE ]
why would you assume that his hand is best? MP1 made a solid raise before the maniac reraised...

re-reraising with JJ here is chip spewing

[/ QUOTE ]

If JJ isn't best, you don't have the odds to call and play for set value. The maniac's stack is the real target here; QQ-AA are 1.4% of MP's hands and if he has one of them that sucks, but against everything else I want to push him out or set him in preflop.

[beset7]

I reraise preflop and then push a favorable flop against a LAG. Against a tighter player I'd fold preflop.

[TreyOfLight]

[ QUOTE ]
I reraise preflop and then push a favorable flop against a LAG. Against a tighter player I'd fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

He has $18 behind a $15 pot. The only possible raise is all-in.

[swolfe]

[ QUOTE ]
If JJ isn't best, you don't have the odds to call and play for set value. The maniac's stack is the real target here; QQ-AA are 1.4% of MP's hands and if he has one of them that sucks, but against everything else I want to push him out or set him in preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are correct that Maniac killed our set odds. That doesn't mean that we have to blindly shove our stack in with a pretty crappy hand.

What I'd do preflop would be based more on my read of MP1, which wasn't provided. If he's also a loose raiser, I'd probably play it exactly the way OP did. If he's a tight raiser, then I'm at best a coinflip with him. Mix in the Maniac and I doubt JJ end up being the best hand if everyone sees showdown.

Also, has the maniac be reraising often? Or just making big raises? A lot of LAGs will make the first raise, but still have fairly tight standards for making a reraise.

[TreyOfLight]

[ QUOTE ]
You are correct that Maniac killed our set odds. That doesn't mean that we have to blindly shove our stack in with a pretty crappy hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, we don't. A preflop fold is OK with me too.

But seeing a flop out of position, 3-way, with a maniac last to act, a 60BB pot and 70BB behind, all while holding "a pretty crappy hand" (one notoriously difficult to play postflop) is a crime. Punishable by loss of money.

[joewatch]

[ QUOTE ]
Punishable by loss of money

[/ QUOTE ]
I love this. Mind if I borrow it sometime?

I agree with you completely.

[Suntzu00000]

I think that you pop the guy back preflop. With a maniac you are at an informational advantage preflop only. Also, I would try to get the MP1 guy out to. You got a great flop to go all-in on, but preflop I think you need to make the maniac pay for being too aggressive with crap. That being said, I feel the way you played the hand was fine. If you have a good read on the guy then by all means play your instincts.

[FreakDaddy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop, your hand is probably best and probably ain't gettin any better. Put all the money in.

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you assume that his hand is best? MP1 made a solid raise before the maniac reraised...

re-reraising with JJ here is chip spewing

[/ QUOTE ]

4xBB raise means little at this level unless MP1 is a fairly tight player. In this scenario I would give heavy consideration to pushing pre-flop to knock MP1 out.