Carlos Beltran

[PokerFink]

I think Beltran is getting too much praise. Yes, he is a very good all-star player. But he is overrated due to the 8 HR he hit in the playoffs last year.

Compare him to Bobby Abreu. The two have very similar numbers.

Career Averages

B.Abreu: .305 BA, .412 OBP, .517 SLG, .929 OPS
Beltran: .285 BA, .354 OBP, .491 SLG, .845 OPS

Per 162 Games (Over Career)

B.Abreu: 23 HR, 92 RBI, 30 SB (76.1 SB%)
Beltran: 26 HR, 104 RBI, 34 SB (88.5 SB%)

Beltran's Numbers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=6132)

Abreu's Numbers (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=5698)

So Beltran has a bit more power, RBI's and steals, but Abreu has better average, OBP and Slugging, so he has more walks and doubles. Overall, their numbers are very similar. Beltran plays a more important position (CF vs RF) and is a better fielder, but Abreu is a good fielder as well with an excellent arm.

Yet, we hear so much about Beltran, and nearly nothing about Abreu. So, is Beltran overrated?

[sthief09]

first of all, Beltran wasn't that good until a few years ago. second of all, he's getting better. third of all Betran is a CF. fourth of all, Beltran is 28. fifth of all, he deserves credit for going off in the playoffs. look at Barry Bonds for the first 10 years of his career. Always on great teams, but never did anything in the playoffs. sixth of all, Abreu is very underrated and I'd take him on my team anyday

Beltran is dirty

[hedxcold]

yea, i think its more abreu is underrated then it is beltran is overrated

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
yea, i think its more abreu is underrated then it is beltran is overrated

[/ QUOTE ]

This is unquestionably true, as Abreu has been one of the most underrated players for years. But I only brought up Abreu for comparison's sake. I still think Beltran is overrated, given his overall numbers.

[handsome]

Uhhh... every expert and analyst will tell you Abreu's one of the top outfielders in baseball. If that's not enough recognition, I don't know what is. Just because ESPN doesn't talk about him in every program doesn't mean he's underrated

[PokerFink]

[ QUOTE ]
first of all, Beltran wasn't that good until a few years ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure how you can say that. 1999 was his first full year and he immediately started putting up numbers that reflect his career averages:

1999: 156 G, .293 BA, .337 OBP, .454 SLG, 22 HR, 27 SB, 108 RBI
2001: 155 G, .306 BA, .362 OBP, .514 SLG, 24 HR, 31 SB, 101 RBI

2001-2003 he put up very similar numbers. He just had one off year in 2000 when he was hurt and played only 98 games.

In 2004, his HR and SB numbers went up, but everything else was basically the same. Was he just lucky to have a good year in a contract year, or is he consistantly going to be around 40/40?

[ QUOTE ]
second of all, he's getting better.

[/ QUOTE ]

2004 was definitely his best year, but there is no way to tell whether it was a sign of things to come, or an aberration.

[PokerFink]

This article would suggest otherwise.

Abreu makes ESPN's All Underrated Team (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=phillips_steve&id=2052675&action=l ogin&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com% 2fmlb%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dphillips_ste ve%26id%3d2052675)

It's an Insider article, so appologies if you don't have that.

[bugstud]

abreu is monsterly underrated, but he was also expected to have more homers than he's had, he's been one of those more doubles than expected/less hr's guy so his SLG is still good, meh. I /images/graemlins/heart.gif Abreu though, he's a stud regardless. I just have a Beltran fixation. Also Beltran's SB success % is pretty damn studly.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
This article would suggest otherwise.

Abreu makes ESPN's All Underrated Team (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=phillips_steve&id=2052675&action=l ogin&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com% 2fmlb%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dphillips_ste ve%26id%3d2052675)

It's an Insider article, so appologies if you don't have that.

[/ QUOTE ]


DARIN ERSTAD IS THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER EVER AND HE'S LISTED AS UNDERRATED????

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This article would suggest otherwise.

Abreu makes ESPN's All Underrated Team (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=phillips_steve&id=2052675&action=l ogin&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com% 2fmlb%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dphillips_ste ve%26id%3d2052675)

It's an Insider article, so appologies if you don't have that.

[/ QUOTE ]


DARIN ERSTAD IS THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER EVER AND HE'S LISTED AS UNDERRATED????

[/ QUOTE ]

espn sucks

[Chris Daddy Cool]

I generally feel Beltran is overrated, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want him in CF for my team. He plays a key defensive position and plays it well (even though he's not even the best CF on his own team), but offensively he isn't as good as people make him out to be.

Abreu is terribly underappreciated and probably a little better hitter than Beltran as of now, but I'd still want Beltran over him because he plays CF and is 28 and will probably eventually be better (if not much better) than Abreu is now.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
I generally feel Beltran is overrated, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't want him in CF for my team. He plays a key defensive position and plays it well (even though he's not even the best CF on his own team), but offensively he isn't as good as people make him out to be.

Abreu is terribly underappreciated and probably a little better hitter than Beltran as of now, but I'd still want Beltran over him because he plays CF and is 28 and will probably eventually be better (if not much better) than Abreu is now.

[/ QUOTE ]

one thing that beltran got boned on was hit rate last year, normalize it to his historic hit% and he's like a .315 hitter, and then his OBP looks a lot better.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This article would suggest otherwise.

Abreu makes ESPN's All Underrated Team (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=phillips_steve&id=2052675&action=l ogin&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com% 2fmlb%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dphillips_ste ve%26id%3d2052675)

It's an Insider article, so appologies if you don't have that.

[/ QUOTE ]


DARIN ERSTAD IS THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER EVER AND HE'S LISTED AS UNDERRATED????

[/ QUOTE ]

espn sucks

[/ QUOTE ]


this coming from a guy that sits at a .02/.04 table with $9999 /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[sthief09]

he's no Mark Kotsay...

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This article would suggest otherwise.

Abreu makes ESPN's All Underrated Team (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=phillips_steve&id=2052675&action=l ogin&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com% 2fmlb%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dphillips_ste ve%26id%3d2052675)

It's an Insider article, so appologies if you don't have that.

[/ QUOTE ]


DARIN ERSTAD IS THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER EVER AND HE'S LISTED AS UNDERRATED????

[/ QUOTE ]

espn sucks

[/ QUOTE ]


this coming from a guy that sits at a .02/.04 table with $9999 /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

it clearly was 10k.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[censored] that. mark kotsay is underrated if anything.

[sthief09]

he is overrated. so?

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[censored] that. mark kotsay is underrated if anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

just hope he goes on the jim edmonds career path and not the rusty greer one.

[New001]

Replace the other 8 hitters on the A's with Kotsay's numbers and I'd be ecstatic. This season has been painful.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
he is overrated. so?

[/ QUOTE ]


that should read underrated

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he is overrated. so?

[/ QUOTE ]


that should read underrated

[/ QUOTE ]

so when's your final you're not studying for?

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
But he is overrated due to the 8 HR he hit in the playoffs last year.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is essentially the bottom line.

But change "due to" to "because of."

[Jack of Arcades]

Depends what you mean by overrated.

Beltran's one of the top 50 position players and is "worth," based on production around $9m/year (or 4.5 wins above replacement).

Beltran's not one of the top 5 by any means (Gammons was closer to the truth when he picked Miggy, Rolen, and Albert), but he's still pretty valuable.

He was horrible in 2000, BTW.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This article would suggest otherwise.

Abreu makes ESPN's All Underrated Team (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=phillips_steve&id=2052675&action=l ogin&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com% 2fmlb%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dphillips_ste ve%26id%3d2052675)

It's an Insider article, so appologies if you don't have that.

[/ QUOTE ]


DARIN ERSTAD IS THE MOST OVERRATED PLAYER EVER AND HE'S LISTED AS UNDERRATED????

[/ QUOTE ]

That article was written by the Mets former idiotic GM, Steve Phillips.

[IndieMatty]

He is overrated. The Mutts should have signed Vlad last year. Sorry Sthief.

[Jack of Arcades]

[ QUOTE ]
He is overrated. The Mutts should have signed Vlad last year. Sorry Sthief.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is especially true when considering the Beltran signing displaced Cameron.