77 Hand Opened Raised

[Nak]

Reads: MP2 is VPIP=76, PFR=6.9 over 29 hands,
BB is VPIP=76, PFR=5 over 21 hands. No reads on the button.

Is the river play okay? Anyting else wrong?

Nak


Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Nak is MP1 with 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Nak raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Nak bets</font>, MP2 calls, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Nak bets</font>, MP2 folds, Button calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Nak bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Nak calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

[aK13]

PFR with 77 in MP1 is pushing it.

Given the way you played it, I wouldn't mind checking the flop and hoping for a late position bet to give a sense of where you stand in the hand, and also to maybe knock some people out of the pot. Also, a free card here wouldn't be horrible.

If you didn't raise preflop, I think the pot would be small enough so that you could check/fold easily and move on.

[Wally Weeks]

[ QUOTE ]
PFR with 77 in MP1 is pushing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't open raise very often with 77...of course, I like to in LP. I thought that these middle pairs don't like too many oponents to win unimproved so he's definitely pushing it. By raising OOP preflop, you risk the chance of being reraised by a better hand.

I suppose if the table is a rockfest and can expect a lot of folds behind you with a raise, you can profitably open raise in this position. Against one or two opponents, you have a good chance of winning unimproved...but three or more opponents I don't really feel too comfortable without spiking a set on the flop.

Wally

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
PFR with 77 in MP1 is pushing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it's too bad in general, but with the looseness of the guys behind us it's probably not advisable. That said, are we just folding this here? I would also like to play because of the reads behind us. So perhaps raising is indeed good /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Siegmund]

Raising 77 vs. not has already been covered.

But you got two coldcalls (loose, yes, but still coldcalls), bet again which basically represents an ace, and you got called again. By two of the three others who took the flop. You are NOT ahead. These are people who will coldcall with A2 but not with J4. I suspect your hand is in third place now, but it MIGHT be second best still.

Another overcard on the turn - which gives you a gutshot but also might have poisoned your sevens. I'm not too scared of a nine, but I am still not happy.

Against one good player, your turn bet is a semibluff. Against two loose players, your turn bet is a spew.

Damn lucky you picked up SOME chance of winning on the river. Your trips are probably good about half the time here. At least you didn't spew again with a 3-bet.

[ArturiusX]

[ QUOTE ]
PFR with 77 in MP1 is pushing it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, its standard for me.

[Nak]

[ QUOTE ]

Against one good player, your turn bet is a semibluff. Against two loose players, your turn bet is a spew.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I should have checked turn. Am I folding to any bet, then?

Nak

[imported_Reaction]

[ QUOTE ]
But you got two coldcalls (loose, yes, but still coldcalls), bet again which basically represents an ace, and you got called again. By two of the three others who took the flop. You are NOT ahead.

[/ QUOTE ] Not always true and the information aquired so far is not enough to conclude you are behind. Yes, someone may have paired on the flop.Maybe a weak Ax or 8x or even 6x. I would tend to think not 2 pair or a set. I'd also rule out I big hand like AK-AQ. [ QUOTE ]
These are people who will coldcall with A2 but not with J4.

[/ QUOTE ] True, but there are a mess of other hands they would call with too. Like Kx, maybe Qx and connected crap suited or not.
[ QUOTE ]
Against one good player, your turn bet is a semibluff. Against two loose players, your turn bet is a spew.

[/ QUOTE ]I prefer to think of it as not giving a free card to players who have already made a mistake by playing a speculative hand in the first place.[ QUOTE ]
Damn lucky you picked up SOME chance of winning on the river. Your trips are probably good about half the time here. At least you didn't spew again with a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ] I would tend to think 2-pair more often than straight. I would definitely 3-bet my set and call a cap.

[arbuthnot]

This reminds me of the way Phil Hellmuth says you should play in his book. Not really great advice for micro-limits.

I'm thinking that you got really lucky on the river and are beating the other guy who has A7.

[scotty34]

[ QUOTE ]

PFR with 77 in MP1 is pushing it.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think open-limping is much worse.

[imported_Reaction]

[ QUOTE ]
I would definitely 3-bet my set and call a cap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thought about this and I don't like what I wrote. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[cmwck]

Preflop depends on the table. I think you can still limp if you know the rest of the table is very loose.
I think i'd check the turn. I don't think you'll be able to bully these presumably loose passive players into folding. And it's not the world's greatest value bet either
River looks good.

[cmwck]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, a free card here wouldn't be horrible.


[/ QUOTE ]

Any card 9 or higher is bad for us if we have the best hand on the flop.

[irishpint]

1. numbers aren't reads
2. i think you just got really lucky

[Nak]

[ QUOTE ]
1. numbers aren't reads


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they are. Don't be a turd.
Nak

[Nak]

[ QUOTE ]
This reminds me of the way Phil Hellmuth says you should play in his book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I read Mason's book reviews, too.

Nak

[Entity]

PFR is perfect.

I don't get the flop bet.

[UncleSalty]

[ QUOTE ]
Don't be a turd.
Nak

[/ QUOTE ]


What's with you and the childish name-calling? Maybe you should grow up and learn how to communicate like a big boy.

[Nak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't be a turd.
Nak

[/ QUOTE ]


What's with you and the childish name-calling? Maybe you should grow up and learn how to communicate like a big boy.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're a poopy-pants.
Nak

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. numbers aren't reads


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they are. Don't be a turd.
Nak

[/ QUOTE ]

Numbers over 29 and 21 hands, respectively, are not reads. Numbers over 70-100 hands provide a baseline but not a ton of information.

Work on getting solid reads.

Rob

[Nak]

[ QUOTE ]
PFR is perfect.

I don't get the flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know. I get too loosy with these. I get too afraid that someone is going to steal the pot from me with nothing. That's why I'm posting. I suspect that I am spewing.

Nak

[Nak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1. numbers aren't reads


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, they are. Don't be a turd.
Nak

[/ QUOTE ]

Numbers over 29 and 21 hands, respectively, are not reads. Numbers over 70-100 hands provide a baseline but not a ton of information.

Work on getting solid reads.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, well call them "Ethel" if you want. My point was that a "read" is an observation of a pattern in the way that a player plays. There can be good reads, there can be bad reads, there can be reads based on a lot of hands, there can be reads that are numbers, there can be reads that are trees, jeez. I understand your point, though.

Nak

[WriterBoy]

ok, as far as i'm concerned i agree with raising pf. however, i would've folded by the river because i'm ocnfident that dude has the ace. however, if i bloop and luck into the third 7, then you may as well put some money in. if you are beat, you're only out those bets and you're already pressing your luck to begin with.

[cmwck]

[ QUOTE ]
PFR is perfect.

I don't get the flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not like that we have 3rd pair, or that we're against 3 opponents, or both?

We would certainly bet if the flop was 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif
right?

[Greg J]

This preflop raise turns me on.

For those of you saying the pfr is not good: you are wrong.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PFR is perfect.

I don't get the flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not like that we have 3rd pair, or that we're against 3 opponents, or both?

We would certainly bet if the flop was 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif
right?

[/ QUOTE ]

When you bet, you'll get called, and you won't know WTF everyone is calling with, which isn't fun. Maybe they have an Ace, maybe they have a flush draw, maybe they just have K-high -- but collectively, they've got a lot more outs when they are behind than you'll have when you're behind, and you're out of position. Woo.