$109 - Set vs. str8 potential

[Scuba Chuck]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1070)
BB (t1050)
Hero (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1000)
UTG+2 (t1000)
MP1 (t1000)
MP2 (t970)
MP3 (t990)
CO (t945)
Button (t975)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t30</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls t20, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t135) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t30</font>, UTG+2 calls t30, MP3 calls t30, SB calls t30.

Turn: (t255) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t200</font>, UTG+2 calls t200, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises to t525</font>, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero .......</font>,

[viennagreen]

you're playing the $109s now?

[shejk]

He he, I usually smile when I see someone minraising/betting with the best hand and then betting big when they have just gotten outdrawn. It is seldom me.

In this scenario though, I believe I go broke. I can always tell myself that I did have ten outs to the boat.

[Bigwig]

Scuba, WTF is the mini-raise preflop? Secondly, WTF kind of flop bet is that? You've got 4 opponents, a 135 chip pot, a straight and a flush draw.

Chances are that nobody made a straight there. 89s is the hand to worry about. AK would've most likely popped back your junk preflop raise. There's a good chance you're looking at KQ semi-bluffing. I'm worried about UTG+2, but I think you're ahead here most of the time, and you have outs.

I'd push.

[BDarch]

I hate the min raise preflop but besides that I would push, you will get shown two pair a lot of the time

[Sam T.]

More importantly, what are you doing in the first two rounds? Min-raise with JJ? Min-bet with a flush draw and str8 draws on the board?

The poll is a red herring, right? To see if people are reading the rest of your posts?

Wait, I figured it out - you're MP3, and have the straight.

Sam

Edit: I deleted several "WTF"s out of respect for Scuba. See Bigwig's post.

[1C5]

[ QUOTE ]
Scuba, WTF is the mini-raise preflop? Secondly, WTF kind of flop bet is that? You've got 4 opponents, a 135 chip pot, a straight and a flush draw.

Chances are that nobody made a straight there. 89s is the hand to worry about. AK would've most likely popped back your junk preflop raise. There's a good chance you're looking at KQ semi-bluffing. I'm worried about UTG+2, but I think you're ahead here most of the time, and you have outs.

I'd push.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is called playing scared in the 109s for the 1st time. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[valenzuela]

I raise t45 preflop, all the hand changes from there.

[Scuba Chuck]

I don't completely agree with the preflop advice here at all. I like Jacks, but not that much.

Flop bet, I agree, bad bet. So be it.

So, here we are. I got myself into this damn mess.

[shejk]

I can see the minraise utg with jacks preflop. People will much rather call your bets later on when you hit your set if you make this raise preflop.

How about pushing this flop? That'd be both unconventional and good.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't completely agree with the preflop advice here at all. I like Jacks, but not that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then limp. What does mini-raising accomplish? You're not going to narrow the field at level 1 by mini-raising preflop. You give everyone in the field with 600 chips implied odds to call for set value. You give fancy players reasons to call with KQs, 89s, ATo.

So, you don't narrow the field. But you do build a pot. You build a pot that more people will chase to win. And you do it with JJ out of position.

Limping is perfectly acceptable. So is a 3BB raise (although I highly prefer 4BB at level 1). Mini-raising is almost as bad as folding.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't completely agree with the preflop advice here at all. I like Jacks, but not that much.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Then limp. What does mini-raising accomplish? You're not going to narrow the field at level 1 by mini-raising preflop. You give everyone in the field with 600 chips implied odds to call for set value. You give fancy players reasons to call with KQs, 89s, ATo.

So, you don't narrow the field. But you do build a pot. You build a pot that more people will chase to win. And you do it with JJ out of position.

Limping is perfectly acceptable. So is a 3BB raise (although I highly prefer 4BB at level 1). Mini-raising is almost as bad as folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I'm willing to listen.

Those are not my current thoughts on this hand. My thoughts are that I would like to build a pot with this hand. If the flop comes scary I'll muck. If I have an overpair with the flop, I'll play. If there's far too much action, I'll decide what to do then, which might mean muck.

What I really hate is raising to 4xBB, and get either reraised or called with overcards. Of course I can deal, just as usual. Regardless, in terms of jamming chips into the pot, either strategy looks to me like I'm going to be committing some serious chips into this pot.

Now, we're just discussing preflop JJ strategy here, not what actually happened in this hand. But I can't understand is how you correlate miniraising to folding?

Finally, how would you play this hand on level 1?

[valenzuela]

the thing is once u do the "mistake" preflop everything discussed afterwards doesnt matter becuase u would have never get urself into that situation. Anyway the flop bet is what a fish from the 11s would do.

[curtains]

Min raising is much better than folding, lets not get carried away. It's probably even better than limping.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
you're playing the $109s now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Curiosity, why are you proclaiming/asking this question?

[raptor517]

oh god curtains. you say min raising is better than limping.. ugh.. ok, i dont like min raising OR limping. make a standard raise, and make a standard bet on the flop. dont play scared because yer jumping up in a higher limit. people play awful at all levels. holla

[curtains]

Dude I make a normal raise too!!! I was just responding to bigwig saying that folding might be better than min raising.

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]

Dude I make a normal raise too!!! I was just responding to bigwig saying that folding might be better than min raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, there. I didn't say it might be better. I said it's almost as bad.

[curtains]

Ok ok!!!